HuntAway

I like the partitions for moose but I can see the value of the Shot's for deer. Thanks for that XTP.

Has anyone used the 45-70 Partitionbullets? Would they perform adequately at ML'ing velocities (100-110 gr 2f t7). I know I can get them here.


edit: I ordered a bag of Orange Sabots from MMP and a box of 45-70 bullets from RusselSports in Alberta. Now to wait for the postal system.

sabotloader

HuntAway

IMO - there is no better bullet for hunting than a Nosler Partition... flat period.

The .451/260 grain Partition is an outstanding bullet (best all around bullet there is)for deer bear and even elk. It will do the job... but, in the normal situation I do load up a 300 grain .458 Nosler Partition PP for elk hunting. The only down side to the Nosler Partition is cost. I think I have enough Noslers to last me the rest of my hunting career (I'm old) but I am shooting Speer Gold Dots in preparation for the day I run out and as substutute for the Nosler's when I am range shooting.They are a bonded bullet (a poorman's Nosler) and they shoot very close to the Noslers.

The 45-70 Government using modern smokeless powderwill shoot a 300 grainbullet @ 1800 fps and on average 1750 fps.

With a 100 grains of T7-2f I am shooting them @ 1750 - so they are on my good list. In September, when it cools down, I will shoot some across the chrono with 110 grains of T7-2f and I think I will be very close to 1800 fps. They will work to 200 yards no problem if you work on shooting that far. I can also tell you when you shoot a really nice 4 point whitetail buck at15 yardsthey go through both shoulders just fine making a nice neat hole.

I sent some to Chapman Gleason when he was doing penetration tests with variuos bullets fired from his ML... He passed them...

In reality there is very little lead in the front compartment, but enough that it causes the copper jacket to expand out doing a lot of cutting as the bullet passes through - and in most instances it will pass all the way through.

I would send you a ballistic sat sheet but I am on the wrong computer... I'll send you one by PM later.

mike

HuntAway

Thanks for the info sabotloader. At 1750 they would be moving along nicely. I'm not sure about 200 yds but 150 would definately be in the ball park. I'll chrony them in my Omega to see what kind of fps I'm getting as well. Hopefully they'll shoot like the .451's

sabotloader

HuntAway

Well, 200 yards is not "point 'n shoot" but it will get there with plenty of energy left....

If you shoot over a chrono and you are shooting T7 shoot a couple with 110 grains and let me know what you get for a velocity...

Here is the table.... You can see I have set the zero range to offer me a 6" point blank range. In doing that I have zeroed @ 143 yards - which puts me up 2.7" (or thre abouts) @ 100...

gleason.chapman

The testing I did with the 45-70 Noslers that Mike sent me was I shot them into a 5 gallon bucket turned sideways of packed top soil, and behind this was a 2x8 piece of wood. TheNosler went all the way thru the 15" of packed top soil (about width of a deer) outthe bottom and buried into the 2x8 piece of wood. It was perfectly expanded.I figured packed top soil is tougher than deer flesh and I felt the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket was about rib strength (probably stronger) and the 2x8 was to simulatehitting a bone. I packed the top soil with a 10 lb tamper, so it was really compact, in fact wound channel wasvery pronounced blowing out the sides of the 5 gallon bucket! Now this was not a scientific experiment, but I was trying to replicate this experiment into Clay by Al Marion:

http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/july03.htm

and this excel file: http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/TSD%20Wound%20Chart-MZ.xls

if you don't have excel, see this please:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/TSD%20Wound%20Chart-MZ.htm

my results were consistent with Al's and I felt the Nosler was the strongest bullet with the best expansion that held 100 or near 100% of weight and shot thru the deer.You have to go to a cast bullet to getbetter penetration. I have since read this book:

http://www.ramworks.net/estore.html

which confirmed many of my theories about the Nosler (expanion, weight retention, killing power). They give the history of the invention of the Nosler Partion in that book and it is an excellent read for any hunter. Christmas is coming up and ask for this book. I feel exactly like SabotLoader does, they are great ML hunting bullets but are expensive, for < 150 yard shooting I don't think you can beat them for > 150 yard I am leaning toward a TC SW bonded or a Parker Ballistic Extrement 275g in my new Savage 10 MLand accuracy is my main reason. If you can't group well, you can't hit and kill well, therefore bullet construction is irrelevant ifyou can't group accurately, hence theTC SW and Parker BE:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/TC_Shockwave_300g_2007_06_02_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_default%20sabot.jpg

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Parker_Ballistic_Extreme_275g_2007_07_21_AA5744_44 g_WinchesterPrimer_default%20sabot.jpg

I love this topic because I believe it is the key to effective hunting and most new ML hunters do NOT know this about bullet (expansion, penetration, wt retention etc), they just go with the bullet their buddy recommended and keep shooting and shoot them until something rally really bad happens likehitting a shoulder with a fragmenting bullet. I will keep thisthread from heading south by not saying the name of the bullet. Glad you can get some of the 45-70, you will be glad you did, expecially on those 300 lb whitetails in Canada, you will knock em down and go thru with a good blood trail.
Chap Gleason

XTP

Not in my experience with the 300 grain ones.
The acronym S.H.O.T.S stands for Standard Hunting Or Target Sabot so it is designed for the use on game, it's just not their premium round.
Now I have not done any scientific (or unscientific for that matter) testing to confirm this, I have not shot into any media to observe penetration or fragmentation, and I have not run any rounds through a chronograph to measure velocity. What I HAVE done is to go out hunting and shoot 300lb bucks from various angles and ranges and evaluate the results. Good accuracy, complete pass through's, massive hemmoraging and very short tracking jobs are the norm when I have used these bullets. Nosler knows how to make a good product in either standard or premium form.

HuntAway

I haven't got a 300 lb'er yet but I have got a few 250's and they're big deer. I hope to put my sights on a 1,000 lb'er Moose in October. That'll be the true test .

gleason.chapman

Amen. I have not use the S.H.O.T, but I believe that Nosler makes a good product. Glad to hear of your testing these on 300lb deer. Amen again. Chap Gleason

gleason.chapman

Yes it will, I would use the Nosler Partition for those big guys. Love to see one taken with the Partition. Chap Gleason

HuntAway

I'll try to oblige ya Chapman!


Thanks for the table Sabotloader!