help me buy a muzzle loader
 

I am curious about purchasinga muzzle loader. I have heard Knight is one heck of a brand. I really cant afford much. What rifles would you suggest that are very reliable are a good price.

If any of yall are selling one, let me know as well.

Thanks

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

Under $400 (including the scope) I would take a look at the Traditions. They are not fancy but they have been very dependable for the 20 some years that I have used them (not to say there are no others but I've been happy with the Traditions-own 3). Over $400 I would take a look at the Omega. They have some nice looking and preforming pieces.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

Natchez Shooters supply has the Omega Black Composite stock with blued barrel for 289.95... on sale.... That would be the one to look at!

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

You should look up your state regulations if you are planning on hunting. Many states have specific items that are either illegal or not allowed. Once you find out what you are allowed to use then the decision is easier. If planning on shooting heavy conical lead (like for elk) T/C rifles with the QLA muzzle may not be the best choice. Some will shoot them but a lot won't. Inexpensive NEF Sidekick is a good choice in the lower price area and still American made and backed by an American company. Parts come from the United States also not from Spain. Older style Knight rifles are available at reduced prices due to the newer ones making them less desirable but they still shoot great. Reliable is usually the shooter responsibility. If the shooting is handled properly almost anything on the market now is reliable.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

T/C Omega. $250 at Cabela's.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=792897

here is low price, and reliable shooting. Nothing fancy, but for 100 yards and less I am sure this rifle would do the job. It would not be my first choice, but you failed to mention how much money you were willing to spend.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=487957&t=11082005

A little more modern in design, with a stainless steel barrel. And still under $200.00. This is a very popular rifle with people because of the break open breech. The Kodiak is a well know rifle.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=644145&t=11082005

Again, more modern technology. Also there are forum members that use these rifles and claim they work real good. The Wolf is on the design of the Optima but at a cheaper price.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=749784&t=11082005

This Knight Rolling Block would be my choice. It is a lot more money but still under $300.00 but would be all the rifle you would ever need.

A lot of what you can afford would determine what you get. If at all possible, try and not jump to the cheapest rifles. From lots of experience with rifles, while the cheaper ones are good shooters often, they are just that.. a cheaper made rifle. Cheaper in appearance. I would tell you to wait if that's the case until you have more saved up, unless this is a very necessary purchase at this time.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=KRB607C

If I wanted a Knight this is what I would get.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

I agree Nimrodder.. never seen that one on that sight. They even had a stainless for under $300.00.. I have no idea why that rifle appeals to me so much.

Have you seen the Rifle Green Mountain Barrel Company has listed for $599.00. A Hawkins with a concal shooting made 1-24 twist barrel and the rifle comes with a 6X traditional sharp shooters brass tube scope.

They also have a 1:18 fast twist in .458 caliber that fits a Hawkins. I think that would be an excellent rifle barrel. I think I have to call GMB monday and talk with them about some of their products.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

Dont leave out the CVA optime Elite.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GCR4000

Here's the Optima Elite. They also have CVA Wolf's for $135

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=TC8898

Here's the TC Omega.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

guys, i cant thank you enough for all the replys. I am looking seriously at the T/C Omega. Thanks for the help!

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Features3.html

Cayugad, here's an article by Toby Bridges on that Green Mountain rifle. That gun is on my wish list:)

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

Opps... he has a replacement barrel for his TC Hawken (and its a 1 in 28"). Still a cool set up.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

Also check out the cabelas website and their traditional rifles.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

bassfisherman711

Gotta tell ya, i have an Omega, even though it is an older one - it is a good basic reliable gun. If you can afford it I would set up to the stainless model vs the blued model. There is nothing wrong with the blued model there are just some advantages to the stainless... It will be a lifetime gun unless your state changes the rules....

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

As long as all you want to shoot is sabot/bullet combinations or Powerbelts the Omega will do a great job. Price of the Z-5 is really good for what you get. I have a stainless (read expensive)older Omega with camo stock and it is fine with sabots. Since I hunt elk I have moved to rifles that will shoot heavy conicals. One other comment; my Omega will not shoot Tripple Seven without a severe crud ring. Some do, some do not. Take your chances. I have tried all the "fixes" including the .25ACP with little help.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

bassfisherman711

ML is correct about the "crud ring" - in my case I do not get the ring at all in any my guns... but even if you do and you are patching afer each shot it is no big deal... windex on your breaks it really easy.... I think a lot of the "crud ring" problem also might go back to how you treat your bore.

And as ML says the 25acp ignition system is a good deal. I shot mine for years with 209's never had any problems other than soot... the 25 gets rid of that...

Your Omega will really do a very good job on elk also... the 300 grain Nosler Partition is a heck of an equalizer....

This is not an Omega, it is a Remington - but it shoots the equalizer...

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

I plan on just using it for whitetails. what kind of muzzle loader should i get. i dont understand the lingo such as "sabots" and whatnot.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

The above mentioned CVAs are all inexpensive, reliable guns. I have taken several whitetails with the wolf without any problems, and hunt with some guys that own the other models. My father has a CVA wolf and I have an H&R sidekick. I have pondered getting a more expensive model but never had the need.

The wolf loves 295 grain powerbelts with 90 grains off powder, but it is a little "fussy" in general. Some loads/projectiles just don't shoot well at all.

On the other hand, the H&R sidekick that seems to shoot any projectile VERY well as long as the powder charge is 70-90 grains. I have also taken several whitetails with the sidekick without any problems. It absolutely loves 300 grain XTPs and 90 grains of triple 7, which is a very inexpensive load to practice with.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

Im not sure where your located but I have a Bass Pro thats 40 minutes from home and they are having a sale this week. They have the Omega Z5, blued, with a Simmons 3X9 Scope installed. Says the gun is bore sighted. It comes in a hard case, and has the starter kit with it for 349.00

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage?appID=163&option=3&template=circula r.cfm&catalog=fhc2007tab&rfx_versioningid= 003&storeID=19&cmid=HOME_GURNEE_CIRCULAR1& amp;storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1

Don

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6831

Here is one I found that would be a great rife for you. If you want to shoot sabots, and able to hit at some impressive distances I might add, and have the ability to shoot a excellent quality comfortable rifle, able to do it all, at a very good price..

This Knight Disc is NIB and on sale. They used to sell for over $300.00 so this might be worthlooking into. I have a Knight Disc. While it does take a primer holder, I do not find that a draw back. They are not all that bad for cleaning and these are guaranteed to be shooters by Knight Rifles. Also you have the Knight service department ot back you up.

Load 100-150 grains of powder and a Knight Red Hot or Barnes 250-300 class bullet and you have a shooter. Mine shoots 120 grains of loose powder and Barnes bullets very well.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

I'm still going to say Omega. Best for the money out there IMO. Sabots, I believe that's a french word meaning "shoe" pronounced "say-bow." In muzzleloading, it's a plastic piece that goes over a bullet that's smaller than the diameter of the bore. For example, you can shoot a .45 bullet in a 50 caliber muzzleloader by using a sabot on it to take up the extra space. Instead of bore sized bullets (conicals) it gives you the option of shooting a smaller, more aerodynamic bullet for longer range performance.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

ok, that is very neat. I watched some hunts this morning where the hunters were using muzzle loaders, this is goiing to be fun. The real reason I want one, well two reasons. 1. they look like a lot of fun to shoot. 2. opening day of muzzle loader season is the first saturday of november here in VA, and the big bucks are ALWAYS moving then. I want to carry a gun into the woods with me then, instead of a bow, because if i see a big guy at 75 yards, i cant reach an arrow out that far, but a muzzleloader sure would do some damage. hot dog i am excited!

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

Uh-Oh! You went and caught the bug. There's no hope now.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

you can sight your bow in for 75 yards! My brother has an old late 1980's compound bow and hes on at 75 yards.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

Since you live in VA, you should consider a Savage 10ML, they are legal in VA, very accurae rifle right out of the box. Chap Gleason Purcellville Va

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

You definately need to figure out the "lingo" before you buy.

Sabots: a smaller than bore sized bullet that fits inside a plastic sleeve

Conical: Big hunk of lead that is full bore sized does not have a plastice sleeve , although the powerbelts have a plastic skirt and are still considered a conical.

If the law where you hunt allows sabots, they are usually better in that they CAN be more accurate and also you can use more advanced bullets, ones that are designed to mushroom, but hang together better if you hit something hard like a bone.

If you are going to ONLY shoot sabots, then the Omega is a great gun!

However, if you think you might want to shoot conicals at anytime in the future (like in Colorado that does not allow sabots), then the Omega is not most peoples first choice. My Omega will not shoot conicals worth a durn

Good luck.

RE: help me buy a muzzle loader
 

bassfisherman711

You kow if you are looking for a good dependable starter gun - this might be one... Thompson Center Black Diamond. Comes with an excellent barrel and a proven receiver. The only down side is that they tend to get dirty in the action, but if you are going to use it for hunting and do notplan on shooting it a ton it would be a good gun.

I was looking in the Natchez catalog tonight and saw it... either the Black Diamond or the Black Diamond XR. Might send cayugad a PM asking him about the gun. He has one and it shoots great for him....

http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?brand=TC&mfgSubGroup=3752

http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?brand=TC&mfgSubGroup=3752

I would suggest a 50 cal vs a 45 cal.

Good luck in your searches