I've finally done it!!!!
 

After years of being a Minute of Moose, Deer, Bear, Bunny etc guy. I've finally joined the MOA gang and I done it with, of all things, a muzzleloader!!!:D

Firearm: TC Omega w/ a 3x9x40 Bushnell Banner Dusk to Dawn w/Circle X Reticle (power set at 7.5x).
Load: 110 gr 2F T7, 209 Winchester Primer, 300 gr, .451 Cal Nosler Partition w/ supplied Sabot.
Weather: Overcast w/ misty rain, light breeze head on.
Range: 100 yds lasered, shot off a bench.

I don't know if I measured the target correctly but this is how I did it.:eek: The holes were not crisp so I measured to the outside edge of the gray area around the hole. Largest spread was 1 inch minus the .451 cal = a .549" group (edit: thanks wabi;))? If nothing else it's a minimum 1" group. :D

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v445/HuntAway/?action=view&current=107-0786_IMG.jpg

Now for the tricky part......Repeating it!!! LOL

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

HuntAway

Dag Nab! that is a heck of a target group... Congrats!!!!

Hope you do not mind but I posted your target here.... those Noslers are great bullets...

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Well Sabotloader if you were not going to post that picture for him, I was going to anyway. Something like that needs to be admired. I do not need a ruler to know what I am looking at there. That is some outstanding shooting on your part. How long did it take to wipe the smile off your face?? :D:D

Really good shooting. Those Omega's are a good shooting rifle from all I have read. I guess you just wanted to reinforce that point.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Thanks guy's, I'm still smiling. :D

Thanks sabotloader for posting the picture. I tried to resize it but it wouldn't go under a 100 kb for me for some reason????

I also shot some PR Dead Centers 340 gr and a Hornady SST (yes, just one)with the same powder charge. The PR's were all over the place at 110 gr and the SST was a bear to load (I mean it was seriously hard to load. I thought I was going to bend my range rod loading it) SST's are officially off my menu for the Omega.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Darn good group.
If those are 1" squares on the target that's well under 1".
Probably somewhere between 1/2 & 3/4".
(1" outside less .451 would give .549 center to center)

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Looking good....Looking good....

:D:D:D

Now...Take the wife out to dinner, buy a bottle of wine....
and make it a real good day!!!!;)

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

HuntAway

You can still shoot the SST's from your Omega - you just have to change out the sabots, from the supplied HPH-12's to HPH-24's - or if you pick up TC Shockwaves - they will fit with the supplied sabot...

Posting a big pic (if you have it posted on a host site...)- click on the yellow mountain landscape pic on the menu bar... it will trigger a pop up that you have OK at the top of the pic for a one time permission. Then follow the screen directions... sounds easy to me but....

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I ran into the same thing with SST's from Hornady when shooting my Black Diamond XR. They loaded so hard I actually broke my short starter. And one of them I had to.. [&o] pound down the barrel to get it seated so I could fire it off. I was really disappointed that very first day I got to shoot my brand new Black Diamond. I was ready to send it back and swear off inlines.

I then bought some of the Thompson Center Shockwaves, and the difference was like day and night. It is all in the sabot. Get some Harvester Crushed Rib sabots in .452 and those SST's will load like a dream.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Very nice Huntaway!! I believe I would have made an exception to my 5 shot rule right about where you did! :D

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

cayugad

Dave not to get sideways with you, but I really believe the "crush rib," while it might be necessary in some rifes - it should not be used at the drop of the hat. Especially not for the ease of loading. If you can load a short or long petal Harvester you are better off.

The "crush rib" often leaks pressure creating a difference anywhere from 200 to 400 fps at the muzzle as compared to the thin offering from MMP - the HPH-3p-EZ. There is a greater loss when comparing the "crush rib" to the regular Harvester of the HPH-24. At first i thought it just might be me and my test bore (an A&H) - but i have tested it from @ least 4 of my otherguns and 3 guns belonging to other people.

The loss of 2/400 fps really does not show up that much in a 100 yard target but as you would know as you extend out from a 100 the drop really becomes apparent. The groups stay together but they do drop on the target.

Just my findings... not looking to cause a controversy...

I thought I had a write up about my testing on this computer but I do not find it...

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

wabi.... I'm an idiot. Thanks for the math lesson.:DStill under an inch! Wooohooo!!!

nchawkeye.... That'll have to wait. She's off visiting her sister having a little bit of girl time. I'm not sure that she would really appreciate it in any case. lol

sabotloader / cayugad.... I'll have to order them (sabots)from the USA as muzzleloading supplies up here in Canada are hit and miss at the best of time. Do you have a source for the Sabots that do mail order? Is there really a big difference between the two shockwaves (Regular and Bonded). I want to hunt moose with it so the sturdier bullet would be better I would think. I'm pretty sure the partitions would work.

yeoman.... A wise man is one who know's his limits.;):DThanks.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Let's see if this worked.









Thanks sabotloader.:D

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Ever hear that song by Pink?? Whats the name of it?? I think its called, Just you and your hand tonight

:D:D:D:D:D

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

HuntAway

MMP does ship to Canada, but it takes /connie a little more work to get them there because of the extra paper work for Canada. I think that PR bullet in Canada also handles the MMP so you could get them direct from them...

http://www.prbullet.com/

Another thing I have sent sabots to Canada several times in just aregular envelope - declared them as sabots and somehow they get there witout a real problem.... go figure!!!

check you PM

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

FG :DThank goodness for the Internet.

sabotloader, pm sent
Thanks,

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I would agree that a crushed rib or one of the thinner MMP are to be used when the others are just too tight. As was the case when I was shooting SST's in the Hornady sabot. I also ran into some problem with some other brands of bullets that I had casted for me, and the only way I could shoot them was with a crushed rib sabot. Even though they said they were .451 diameter.

Actually I seldom shoot over 100 yards, and so for me the crushed rib work real good. I never shoot them over a chronograph, so the loss of barrel pressure might be the case but does not seem important to me.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

You mean Pink Floyd???

Well...my wife's around, now where did I put that bottle of grape juice....

:D

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

No the chic singer Pink.

Not pink floyd :D

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Nope...too young for me...My 15 yr old daughter has heard of her...

:D

I was more into 3 Dog Night, The Rolling Stones, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young....

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Hippie.

[8D]

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Who???







you forgot them...........[&o]

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Forgot who Yeo...I did burn out a few brain cells...

Frontier....I had hair down to my shoulders.....you should see me when I was 20, I have a picture with a greasy John Deere hat on, my yellow Deere shirt and green work pants, with a stringer of bass from Currituck Sound that has 3 over 6 pounds on....

Now that I'm over 50 and BALDing....I'm dang glad I enjoyed my youth....Although I do wish I had of preserved my hearing.....I can't get those dang crickets out of my head...

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

now your talking nchawkeye.....Doobie Bros, Deep Purple, Chicago......;)

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

What'd ya say? Tickets to the Dead? Awesome........

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I'm an X Generationer (60). But grew up listening to all of that (much to my parents chagrin)plus a whole lot of country from my parents. Tammy, Charlie, Hank and all.... and of course Elvis. I grew just NE of Detroit in Chatham Ontario during Motown's bad days.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I've seen threads get off topic before, but this has got to be the first one to get musical.

As my man Willie would say, let's get back "On The Road Again."

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Amen. Look forward not the past, press on and run the race says Paul in Romans. Chap Gleason

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I use crushed rib exclusively with Norler Partitions in my Omega and Knight and I wondered about blowby on them, especially at the higher pressures.
I am glad you tested this and report on it. Thanks Chap

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Well Chap, if you want to get religious, one of my favorite verses is when God told Paul "Kill and eat"....

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Why develop a sabot so soft, so that it sacrifices FPS? I suppose with so many different barrels on the market they are trying to get the most bang for their buck?????

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I really wonder just how much pressure a crushed rib sabot actually looses? If you look at the base of the sabot, the part that actually expands and seals the sabot to the bore, there is an area where there is no ribbing. Meaning that should expand and be sealing the breech there. Like I mentioned, I have not shot them over a chronograph, but it would be interesting if someone shot a crushed rib VS a standard sabot and seen just what kind of pressure we are talking.

I shot them again today in a stainless steel GMB. They were the green .430 diameter. I was shooting .44 caliber Hornady XTP 300 grain and they shot beautiful. Excellent accuracy. I was shooting them with 100 grains of Graf's black powder. The nice part is I shot three of them in a row without swabbing the bore and they worked perfect.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I've posted on this topic before.I did a side-by-side comparision with Harvester Crush Ribs and MMP HPH-24's inmy Mustang. The crush ribs got me better groups and higher velocity.

See thethread at:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2153706&mpage=1&key=different%2c sabots&#2153706

Be sure to scroll down in the thread to the comment withpictures of the fired sabots.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I somehow missed that post. That was real interesting. Also some darn good shooting on your part. I personally like the Harvester Crushed Rib sabots.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

Semisane - that was some nice target work on the link you provided. I'd have a hard time calling one of those groups better than the other. The 4th shot on the right target aside, they're pretty much the same. I like crushed ribs for some load combinations also but either of the groups you posted would be aok with me.

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

As I have said before - I did and have shot them across a chrono. I shot them from my A&H using300 grain Gold Dots. The A&H, in fact none of my inlines require a 'crush rib' to load. They do however require am HPH-24 or a standard Harvester, either the short petal or the long petal variety.

Because my bore is large for a 'crush rib' or even a HPH-3p - I expected to loose velocity as when compared to a HPH-24 or a regular Harvester. And in fact I did loose velocity with the 'crush rib'. I lost anywhere from 200-400 feet per second. The HPH-3p amazingly held the same velocity as the 24 or the regular Harvester. I remember writing that distincty in my report. I also remember asking Del why the 3p showed no real velocity loss - when compared to the HPH-24 - which is a tighter fitting sabot. He explained that it was in the formulation of the polymere and it's ability to expand under heat pressure to the barrel. The HPH-24 should and could probably do the same thing going to the White where I nomally use HPH-12.

From my testing I really beleiveI was loosing presure up the grooves in the sabot. I simply was not compressing the sabot enough to complete the seal. You can only ask the cup to hold so much pressure - the rest is dependent on the bearing surface of the sabot/bullet combination on the bore. The cup is fairly easy to blow out if you do not have that bearing surface. The cup iniatially catches the pressure and forces the sabot/bullet combination to obturate to tightly to the bore. If the bearing surface doesn't hold back the pressure you will end up with a flyer.

These are the recovered sabots.... if you closely at the middle HPH sabot you can see the end of the which is not against the bore shows no sign of blow by or residue. But looking at the 'crush rib' you can see signs ofpowder residue clear out to the end of the petals... you can see and feel it a lot better in real life.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/sabotloader/Sabots.gif

Here is one of the test targets... fired from the A&H. All shots were at the same POA.

You can see I can not complain about group size and I have not complained about group size. My only statement has been that 'crush ribs' in my barrels give me less velocity. 2/400 really probably would not even be noticed @ 100 yards...

RE: I've finally done it!!!!
 

I guess my point is we are to look forward in life not dwell on the past. Yes, it did say kill and eat and after the global flood of Noah, God said I give you everything that walks as meat, that justifies killingBambi.
Chap