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Hornady ballistics surprise
Just came from the Hornady site. I've been trying the 45 cal 300 XTP's as they come from Walmart. The Hornady site shows them with BC of .18. The 44 cal 300's show a BC of .245. Seems if I want to shoot an inexpensive 300 grain jacketed HP I'd been crazy not to use the 44's. Am I missing something here? I did go to MMP to order sabots for them, and see the green .429-.430's suggest a maximum bullet weight of 260. Think I have a problem shooting the .430 300's in the green sabots in my GM barrel?
While I was at Hornady, I ordered some 390 HB-HP conicals to de-virginize the 54 cal barrel which came on my old Cabela Hawken and is now (thanks to Sabotloader) interchangeable with the 50 GM barrel. I'll be boring you with the results from these soon enough!:) |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
Look at the HPH sabots. 300 gr. is a recomended bullet in it.
50 Cal Rifle .429 - .430 Bullet Green HPH/12 Possibilities: 240 - 400 Grains Recomended: 240 - 300 Grains |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
Good Golly Wolfhound, guess I should have turned the page! Got them ordered.
Has anyone shot the 44 cal 300's? Results? |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
I've got some here. Mine are Hornady branded with whatever sabot they use. I've got some green HPH's though.My father in law tried them once and gave them to me with a bunch of other stuff. I haven't tried them yet. I have shot the 45/300'sduring sabot testing. I'm not a fan of 300 grain bulletsso I'm not in much hurry.
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RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
yeoman
I use to shoot them for the same reason better BC, but I could never get them to be consistent -seems like I would get one or two flyers every once in awhile - never knew when it was going to happen. That is also one of the reasons that I went to the Speer .452/300 grain Gold Dot - BC .232 I ordered some 390 HB-HP conicals to de-virginize the 54 cal barrel which came on my old Cabela Hawken I just called Dan @ Bull Shop and ordered some of his 54 cal slip fitconicals in various sizes from .540 to .546 to see what fits the best. I did get some .540 No-Excuse conicals from Dave but they slid right down the barrel of my Renegades and the Lyman Trade Rifle... turn them upside down and they would slide right back out.... |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
Wolfhound - why don't you like 300 grainers?
Sabotloader - how does the .452 300 Speer get to .232 while the .452 300 Hornady only .18? Are the nose profiles that different? I ran the ballistics on the .245 BC 44-300's using 1700 fps versus the .199 BC 10mm/200's @ 2000 and there was oly a 4" drop differential out at 200 yds. I'm thinking the 300's might reduce the effects of wind out thar. Your thoughts? |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
yeoman
how does the .452 300 Speer get to .232 while the .452 300 Hornady only .18? Are the nose profiles that different? I'm thinking the 300's might reduce the effects of wind out thar. Your thoughts? I really believe it would be easier to shoot the 300 grain Gold dot out to 200 than it is the 250 grain... but - I prefer to hunt deer with the 250 so I make do - but, i can not imagine shooting a deer @ 200 with a ML -it would have to be an out of this world trophy buck for me to even consider it.... |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
I think 240-260 gr. bullets are the optimum weight for Whitetail. Deer are easy to kill and don't require massive bullets to do the job. If I were hunting larger game I might try a 300 gr. bullet but it's overkill on a deer.
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RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
ORIGINAL: sabotloader I am pulling this of the top of my head because I am on the wrong computer - I can not run the numbers here. and do it on the Web instead of in a Windows Program. Example: 300g for Bullet weight BC is .232 for Speer Gold Dot Muzzle Vol is 1700 fps zero range is 100 yard Then click go. I can't get the table to show up with this editor, but put it in and you will see -5.4 inches low at 150 yards with this bullet and 1700 fps load. Chap |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
the velocity of the 200 may overide the effects of the cross winds about the same as the slower but heavier 300 grain bullet. but, i can not imagine shooting a deer @ 200 with a ML -it would have to be an out of this world trophy buck for me to even consider it.... Wolfhound - I cut my teeth with slug guns and admit to being a little hung up on heavy bullets. I've seen Whitetails carry hits from shotgun slugs I never would have dreamed they could handle. I'm afraid there is a tendancy to overestimate what a heavy bullet can do. |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
ORIGINAL: yeoman Wolfhound - I cut my teeth with slug guns and admit to being a little hung up on heavy bullets. I've seen Whitetails carry hits from shotgun slugs I never would have dreamed they could handle. I'm afraid there is a tendancy to overestimate what a heavy bullet can do. I'll take amuzzleloader over any sluggun anytime. I no longer hunt with a sluggun and in fact sold my slug barrel a few years ago. I haven't hunted with one since 2000. |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
Patrick them is fightin words to most White enthusiasts!
In a strictly BP/sub sabot gun I prefer a 250gn... in my Savage I like the 300gn better... in my Whites no less than 460gn. I have deer run farther, on average when they run, with my 250gn shots... In answer to the question I have tried the 300gn .44 cal and could never get them to shoot as accurate as a .45 cal bullet. |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
yeoman
Would you attempt a "peeper" out thar? (forget about the bullet choice) |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
SL - from a philosophical perspective, why do we let one fly at the squirrel and not the deer out thar? Do we think they'd have let one fly at the deer 100 years ago? I think so. I've read many accounts by Howard Hill of arrows loosed at >100 yds at running deer, 50 years ago. Whatchathink?
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RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
yeoman
SL - from a philosophical perspective, why do we let one fly at the squirrel and not the deer out thar? Do we think they'd have let one fly at the deer 100 years ago? I think so. 1. because the chances of me actually hitting the peeper are zip point nothing to nothing... but i think I could get very close. 2. if I did hit it I hanestly do not think I would have to worry about wounding it - it would be dead with that size bullet in that body. Not the " deer out thar" - The real thing comes down to the reason #1 - I think I would get real close - not good enough for me when shooting big game... 100 yearsago (maybe even 25 years ago - I might still have the physical abilities to take that shot with out a problem - especially if I were doing it on a regular basis), but then again 100 years ago you probably would not have to take that shot - there was a lot more game available and most often you were not trophy hunting you were hunting for the freezer - 200 years ago it would have been for food when needed at the ranges you that were driven by hunger. Just thinking |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
I think we take the peeper shot because we, or, more properly, society, places less value on a squirrel than a deer. It's part size, part eyes, part perceived intelligence, and mostly, conditioning. A wounded ground squirrel dragging itself through a backyard garners less attention than a deer. It helps if we can put a critter in the "pest" category too.
100 years ago there were fewer deer where I live. Either way,taking the long shot for food would have been societally acceptable. |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
ORIGINAL: Flatland Hunter Patrick them is fightin words to most White enthusiasts! |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
Not offended Patrick, just playing around with you. I have never had a deer just drop except when hit with my .243 or .270. Every one, except one, has gone at least 30 yds... no matter what I used in my ML and without exception they are all boier room hits.
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RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
I guess I would like to add my personal biases also... while agreeing with Patrick, (wolfhound) -I really do think the 240/250/260 grain bullet is the right choice for deer, even black bear, and Idaho with what ever species of Moose we have it would work well there also. Heck I would even say it would work on elk - i am talking Nosler 260 grain Partition, but I do prefer the 300 grainon that occaission - much thicker skin
As I have said before it all comes down to location - location - location & then bullet perfromance |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
Well I grew up in a part of Wisconsin that was shotgun only for deer. I hunted for years with a 12 gauge and shot and killed a lot of deer. I never had a deer make more then thirty yards after being hit. My Dad once, had a nice deer run past him. He fired three times with his 12 gauge and it finally dropped. All three hits were perfect placed, even grouped you could say. To this day we could not figure out how that deer ran getting blasted through the heart and lungs like that. Deer are amazing creatures.
With muzzleloaders, I hunted for many years with large conicals and a simple roundball. I'd hate to guess how many deer I have taken with a muzzleloader. Again, very few were ever shot and made it out of sight. Most were what I call a double leap and fold type drop. Only one I can think of ran off from me, and that was all my fault. Poor shot placement and nothing more. Now that I am hunting with sabots and large conicals, and every time I am loaded with them... see nothing. Grab an old traditional rifle with a roundball and I seem to make venison that day. I guess I should have stuck with what always worked. I should point out, I shot a lot of deer with modern center fire rifles also. While most dropped where they stood, some managed to run off a short ways, but I always had a blood trail for the most part. That is my big fear with sabots. After reading posts of how XTP's some times do not pass through, and other times they do. Maybe that is why I like big lead too.... it always worked for me. |
RE: Hornady ballistics surprise
ORIGINAL: cayugad Well I grew up in a part of Wisconsin that was shotgun only for deer. I hunted for years with a 12 gauge and shot and killed a lot of deer. I never had a deer make more then thirty yards after being hit. My Dad once, had a nice deer run past him. He fired three times with his 12 gauge and it finally dropped. All three hits were perfect placed, even grouped you could say. To this day we could not figure out how that deer ran getting blasted through the heart and lungs like that. Deer are amazing creatures. With muzzleloaders, I hunted for many years with large conicals and a simple roundball. I'd hate to guess how many deer I have taken with a muzzleloader. Again, very few were ever shot and made it out of sight. Most were what I call a double leap and fold type drop. Only one I can think of ran off from me, and that was all my fault. Poor shot placement and nothing more. Now that I am hunting with sabots and large conicals, and every time I am loaded with them... see nothing. Grab an old traditional rifle with a roundball and I seem to make venison that day. I guess I should have stuck with what always worked. I should point out, I shot a lot of deer with modern center fire rifles also. While most dropped where they stood, some managed to run off a short ways, but I always had a blood trail for the most part. That is my big fear with sabots. After reading posts of how XTP's some times do not pass through, and other times they do. Maybe that is why I like big lead too.... it always worked for me. |
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