TC Triumph
 

anybody else have one of these? i just got one last week. i just could not get myself to pay $800-960 for a pro hunter. i would never change the barrel. this is my first TC product. it looks easy to clean. i have 2 knights. the only thing im not sure about is the salesman talked me into trying some newer powerbelts( i said i would never shoot them again after my mishaps 3 years ago). these newer PB ARE 223 GRAINS. he told me thats what everybody else was using w/ thier TC'S. THANKS

RE: TC Triumph
 

he lied lol. I found on one forum a guy was shooting 370 grain tc maxi hunters but the groups were not impressive. 4-5" @ 100 yards. Is yours a .45 or 50cal?

RE: TC Triumph
 

is a 50 cal. the last time i shot PB i used the 295gr. they performed fine on paper but was not consistent w/ deer. the last 2 years i went back to the knight/barnes hot shot 250 grs. BAM! DEER FALL w/o moving. it seemed to me that i didnt get much (if any) expansion before w/ the PB. i was using 100 gr pyrodex select btw.

RE: TC Triumph
 

100 grains pyrodex and a 295 powerbelt is the load my dad and brother use in their sidelocks. Put it right behind the shoulder and they will drop. Although, whitetail do act differently. But so far with mule deer, the powerbelts have worked great. Maybe give the 338 or 348 grain powerbelts a try. That would be a great load with 100 grains RS.

RE: TC Triumph
 

Great choice, I love the looks of them, looks like an updated Omega, which I have and shoots great. I just bought a new Savage 10ML and I was thinking of getting a Pro Hunter.


My gun evolutionhas been similar to your's, except my pathwas:
Knight Disc pyrodex pellets, no scope
Knight Disc prodex pellets, scope
Knight Disc prodex pellets, scope Powerbelts
Knight Disc Prodex pellets, scope, Nosler Partition
TC Omega, Prodex pellets, scope, Nosler Partition
then 777 pellets
TC FlintLock, Patch RB, 70g Goex loose, no scope
TC FL, Nosler Partition, 70-80g of Goex, no scope
then 777 loose in my Knight and Omega
Savage 10ML,Scope 3-9x, 44g Accurate Arms 5744, have not chosen bullets yet.

Not saying this is the evolution for everyone, but it has been my evolution in the ML world--it has been an excellet journey of learning. Would like to get a TC percussion in a Renegade to round out my ML "collection".

Bullet evolution has been:
Knight lead bullets 2 years
PB 295g HP bullets3 years
nosler Partition bullets 3 years

Powder evolution has been:
Pyrodex pellets 2
pryrodex pellets 3
777 pellets
loose 777
loose goex

Scope evolution has been:
cheap simmons 3x9
bushnell banner 3x9
Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9

Sabot Evolution has been
sabot with the bullet, no clue as to why it was "inaccurate"
Crushed rib sabot
matched sabot with bullet for accuracy
mostkinds (MMP, Harvester) of sabot for testing--sabot makes huge difference in loading and accuracy

Good luck in load selection, sabot selection, bullet selection.

Chap Gleason

RE: TC Triumph
 

if possible ... could you post a few pictures of the rifle and the action? I would like to see it better.

RE: TC Triumph
 

I have an omega and IMO I would buy sabots and bullets because the omega, encore, and the triumph are high accuracy guns but can only be this way with high accuarcy bullets witch are the saboted ones.My omega is a tack driver at 100 yds. I shoot 45. hornady pistol bullets in a 50. cal sabot with 100 grains of triple 7. I shootless than 1'' groups at a 100yds off a bench with this setup. This is the setup I used to shoot my first deer, take a look:

Works for me maybe you should try it.

RE: TC Triumph
 

He's just trying to sell you some very expensive bullets. And chances are they won't work so hot in that gun. Hornady SST's (shockwaves)and .451-.452 XTP'sare better bullets to start out with. Heck of a lot cheaper, too.

RE: TC Triumph
 

i hate loading the t/c bullets in my t/c. thats why i shoot 338gr powerbelt platinums. i don't have to beat the rod on a tree to seat the bullet.

RE: TC Triumph
 

Hornady doesn't make shockwaves Thompson Center does. They do make SST's however but they are not the shockwaves. The XTP's are the pistol bullets originally.

RE: TC Triumph
 

I ordered a T/C triumph camo with the weather shield and recieved it today. I was able to handle one at the SCI show in reno and realy liked it. I will start out with the factory recomended loads and work up from there.The actual production ML is alot lighter than the one they had at the show. This is myfirst T/C ML. I have been shooting my Savage 10ML-II for about 4 years I believeone of the best muzzleloaders made.

RE: TC Triumph
 

My outfitting business is sponsored by T/C so of course I shoot there guns. I have shot the Triumph before it hit the market. We tested it with alot of different load set-ups and My best results where with 150grTriple 7, a triple 7 primer and either T/C's 245 shockwave superglide sabot or Barnes tipped MT. Both shot the same bullet hole at 100 yards and 2 in groups at 200. Better than alot of rifles do. I only hunt with a muzzleloader and I've kill deer and elk out beyond 200 yards with the shockwave bullet. If you choose the shockwave, use the bonded bullet for elk and heavy game and the regular shockwave for deer. The bonded bullet will just punch a hole. It will kill it but it my run a while. Nearly lost a big Iowa buck learning this. Good luck, you will love the new T/C.

RE: TC Triumph
 

Actually Hornady does make shockwaves and Hornady SST's. Shockwaves are marketed under the Thompson Center name. They are the same bullet, different colored polymer tip, and different sabot. If you try and load a shockwave in your rifle and it loads hard, try going to an E-Z glide, Harvester Crushed Rib, MMP HPH-24, or their three petal sabot. They will make hard to load bullets much easier to load.

When I first got my Black Diamond XR I purchased SST's. Broke the short starter that day trying to load them. Of course back then there was no thinner sabots on the market. Bought the T/C Shockwaves, and they loaded fine.

The XTP is their hollow point bullet Hornady makes. If they have a polymer tip, they are sold as a PTX bullet which is a H XTP but with a tip in them. We used to get them in bulk and they too were great shooters. You don't see them in bulk much anymore.

If I had a new Triumph, like Doegirl said, I would get some Shockwaves and some XTP's and try them with 100-120 grains of loose powder. I think you would have some excellent groups with that rifle and those loads.

While Powerbelts do shoot well in a lot of rifles, I think there are much better projectiles out there for the money. If I want to spend almost a $1.00 a bullet I would look at some Nosler Partition instead or something like that...

Just my opinions of course.

RE: TC Triumph
 

The XTP's pistol 45 cal .451 with the short black MMP sabots with 5744 powder shoots extremly good out of my Savage 10ML. It will be intersting to see how they shoot out of this new ML useing black powder of course!

RE: TC Triumph
 

Those Savage muzzleloaders are a very interesting rifle. That load you mention must have a very good velocity I take it? I bet that is a real deer stopper. Some day I am going to shoot one of them Savages. I have seen some of the groups you Savage owners shoot, and they are most impressive.

RE: TC Triumph
 

You don't need to do that any longer, you can shoot the TC bullets in your TC, just switch the sabot out and buy 1 package of MMP #24 and 1 package of MMP EZ-3petal and 1 package of Harvester Crushed Rib sabot.
They are about $7/package, you then can get a good loading sabot, that checks the gases. However be aware of this rule

"the harder they load, they tighter the groups, but they have to load".

So choose the sabot that loads the easiest and shoots the tightest groups:

"ya gotta shoot a lot of different combinations before you find your best load/bullet/sabot with any given rifle".

If you a good CF bullet and like it's performance on game, find the corresponding rifle bullet in 45/70 (the are .458 in diameter)and buy some ORANGE MMP sabots. Work a load from the manufacturer recommended load (usually 2 Pellets of 777 or Pyrodex).
Chap Gleason

RE: TC Triumph
 

I have heard this about the bonded bullet just punching a hole thrufrom several SW shooters. What has been your experience with the bonded and unbonded SW on shoulder or bone hits on elk? Will the bonded fragment on elk on a bone hit or will they hold together?
Thanks Chap Gleason

RE: TC Triumph
 

TC markets and sells the Hornady bullet under the brand name Shockwave. Same bullet, different sabot. Chap

RE: TC Triumph
 

Chap,

Your message box is full.

I've shot two elk with my T/C with the bonded bullet. One in the ribs and is stop against the opposite side ribs and he ran 35 yards before running out of air. The second was ashould hit at 95 yards and it went threw the bone, smoked the front of the lungs and stop behind the shoulder on the opposite side and he ran 2 feet, straight down. But, on a whitetail that bonded bullet is like shooting him with a jacketed .223

RE: TC Triumph
 

Good to know that the bonded hold up on bone hits. Thanks. I will get rid of some of my messages. thanks for informing me of that also.
Chap

RE: TC Triumph
 

Thnaks, I'll check into that this weekend when I go to BassPro. I know I tried some of the SST and Shockwaves the dealer recommended to me and gave up trying to load them. I mean my powerbelts with 90grof loose Triple 7are getting 1.5" grouping at 75 yards but if that can be improved upon then I'll try it.

RE: TC Triumph
 

I am getting this with a SW with the supplied sabot at 92.5 yards:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/TC_Shockwave_300g_2007_06_02_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_default%20sabot.jpg

Now I have NEVER done that before in my life, but I am getting 2" groups at about 100 yards with Crushed rib sabots in my Savage 10 ML with a Hornady XTP and a Speer Gold Dot. Tight sabot is critical for accuracy, but not "too tight" and I know you know exactly what that means, cause I could NOT get 300g SSTs or SW down my Knight or Omega ML without a hammer. Chap

RE: TC Triumph
 

HighSierra
I am on a business trip to Cinn Ohio right now and last Sunday I visited the Creation Museum, www.creationmuseum.org. You have gotta see it, most excellent. It is a walk thru Earth History with evicence of God's creation, not evolution or millions of years.

In Christ, Chap Gleason
www.answersingenesis.org

RE: TC Triumph
 

chapman and cayguard(or anybody)--what are your opinions of using 223gr powerbelts as opposed to using 250-300 gr bullets? do lighter rounds perform better on deer? im probably going to shoot 100gr pyrodex. most of my shots are under 75 yards. im open for any suggestions--im no bp ballistic freak.

RE: TC Triumph
 

245 + is best for deer. Im shooting a .45 this year with a 225 grain powerbelt but i know my limits and where to place the shot. But with a 50cal like you have, i think thats to light of a bullet. I'd take a look at the 295s on up.

RE: TC Triumph
 

From what I have read here and the fact that a long shot here in Indiana is a 100 yards, I am sticking with 300g for deer season. I get better groups from my optima with 300g vs 250 as well.

Chap....I am giving the shockwaves a try tomorrow with their yellow sabots. If mine groups like yours did in that pic....I might have some xtps for sale! Nice shooting there!

RE: TC Triumph
 

No, the lighter bullets fly further and flatter but don't penetrate as well as a heavier bullet (throw a golf ball vs a ping pong ball into a snow bank, which one goes deeper into the snow?---same idea for bullets, heavier go deeper even if they are slower) Also the slow bullets with heavy weight don't tend toget off course as the lighter bullets with windand are therefore usually more accurate. Most people feel that the 240 to 260g bullet are perfect size for deer. I believe they are fine for regular size deer, but for "big boys" that are mature and muscular I think a heavier bullet is better, that is why I prefer to shoot 300g instead of the traditional 250g. I also like the fact that most 300g shoot thru deer leaving a great blood trail. These are my preferences only for the weight of the bullet. Chap Gleason

RE: TC Triumph
 

Like I said, I have never shot that well in my life with any gun at even 25 yards let alone 92.5 yards and I honesly was surprised myself. I know those SW/SST are accurate bullets even in my Omega and Kight:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/tcshockwave300g.htm

but a few years ago they did NOT have all the thin petal sabots that are on the market now, so I believe you can choose a sabot and a bullet combo you want now and get a great shooting load by "working the sabot and the load". My strategy was 'stay close to what the manufacturer' recommended, and that worked. Chap

RE: TC Triumph
 

I've yet to shoot a deer with a powerbelt of any size. I have hunted with them, but never had an opportunity. Just my luck I guess. If your shots are under 75 yards, I would shoot a 300 grains anything, like a Shockwave or even XTP and that should plant a whitetail pretty easy. The heavy bullet will blow right through and if put in the right place, excellent vital organ damage and blood trails. ALTHOUGH.. shoot what is most accurate. If the powerbelt is the most accurate projectile then use that and put it in the right place. I never even shot a 223 powerbelt. I have shot a lot of 245 grain and they shoot great. Sorry I could not help you more.

RE: TC Triumph
 

O2beBowHunting,
I agree with Cayugad, shoot what is accurate in your gun, PB, XTP, SW, SST, Barnes whatever. Shot placement kill's first, then penetration then expansion. The logic is, a poorly placed shot will not kill and poorly placed is affected by accuracy---so a 6" group leads more likely to poor shot placement, a 3" group at 100 yards leads to good shoot placement and a 1.5" group at 100 yards leads to excellent shot placement---so groups should be as small as possible given your rifle. A shot that does not penetrate adequately will NOT kill, so usuallypeopleused jacketed bullets over solid lead to compensate for that, the better the bonding of the jacket to the leadthe better the bullet holds together. A bullet that fragments CAN kill, butMAY not get into the vitals, so usually people want bullets that nearly hold their entire weight together. A bullet that does NOT expand can kill, but most people like expanding bullets since it leaves a larger wound channel, therefore more blood lost and vital organs damaged. Your looking for the "jello look" inside the chest cavity of the deer, that is expansion producing large wound channel. So putting this logic together, the higher weight PBs 338 and higherhold together better than the lower weight and penetrate better than the lower weight, but a stronger jacket on a different bullet like a 300g Gold Dot or a Nosler Partitionor a 300g Barnes or 300g bonded SW will penetrate even better and hold together better than a 295g PB. So if PBs are the most accurate in your gun, go with the higher wt PBbullets but don't sacrifice accuracy. The only place I sacrifice accuracy is bullet design, with a higher ballistic coefficient, so you get a further shooting flattershooting bullet, but I will only give up an inch for flatter shooting.Many will disagree with what I have said above because they love a particular bullet and will NOT shoot anything different, or like a particular load and will not go to loose powder, so their convictionkeeps them from finding an accurate combination in their gun.These of course are my opinions only,and are based on my experienceand reading. Chap

RE: TC Triumph
 

I would say if the 223 PB bullets are accruate in your rifle they would work fine for the deer in your 75 yd range.I have shot more than a few deer with a 45 cal round ball,even shot one with a double ball load once.
Useing my ruger I shot 7 deer in 2 seasons useing a 185 gr nosler bullet all head shots from 25 to 70 yds,used a 225 PB out of a knight disc to drop one at 170yds,hit a little higher than wanted to took out 6 in of spine deer dropped where it stood.Took several useing 200 gr sw and sst with encore no problem from 45 to 100 yds,used a 195 barnes on one large 8 pointer at 100 yds bullet didn't open found a couple days later had shot through both shoulders,looked like a pencil hole all the way through,that was a stinking job sawing the horns off,haven't used them anymore.
I use a 250 gr sst in my savage muzzle loader at over 2400 fps,if I could get the 200 sst to shoot as fast and accrute as the 250 I would use the 200.
In one week this same savage muzzle loader shooting the sst 250 with same load dropped 9 deer,one doe,one 6 pointer,four 7 pointers,two 8 pointers,and one 10 pointer,the doe weighed the least at 135 lbs,were shot at 100 to 234 yds.ALL were complete pass throughs.No I didn't shoot all of them I just shot 4 of them.
Have used the big conicals in 45 and 50 cal side locks also but since the sabots came out I like them and the lighter bullets better.But the big conicals killed deer just as good.

RE: TC Triumph
 

Herman....I have to ask a couple questions. First is a rookie question; did you shoot the double ball load by accident or on purpose?:D

Second, can I assume NC is not a 1 buck state? What you described above would take us 5 years to pull off here in Indiana.:eek:

RE: TC Triumph
 

Years ago a lot of guys around here were shooting double balls.when I shot that deer<I don't remember the company thatcame out with I guess you would call it a sabot,it looked like a sabot cup in each end,you put the powder in a patch a ball.the double end sabot and another ball.I think they quit making them because they figured out they were dangerous??
Part of our state you can take 2 bucks and 4 does and part you can take 4 bucks and 2 does.For a total of six,and it is rumored that a hunter will be able to take more does this coming year by getting extra tags???Won't know untill the regs come out in july.

RE: TC Triumph
 

I might stock up on those Omegas cause they are on sale for like 250 bucks now that the Triumph came out. The Triumph looks like an other great gun but I don't find the need for it versus the Omega.