gleason.chapman

I bought and have read a book titled

"Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study" [/b]
By
John Barsness, Craig Boddington, John Haviland, Richard Mann, Ron Spomer, Bryce Towsley

you can see from the names of the authors that they have a lot of experience and wisdom to write such a book.


Here are some things that struck me in the book and that I learned.

Chapter 5 Deer Bullets

P. 120 “The wound cavity of a 180 grain, 308 Nosler AccuBond impacting at a velocity of 2900 feet per second in the Bullet Test Tube is impressive. This bullet produces one of the largest wound cavities of any 180 grain, 308 caliber bullet.

P. 129
Penetrating Bullets
You do not need a penetrating bullet or solid for any big-game animal less than 400 pounds with the possible exception of trying to stop a charging lion. Even then , experienced hunters will tell you that a balanced bullet that penetrates deeply would be a better choice. With the exception of solids, most of the bullets that behave as penetrators do so because impact velocities are below the lower velocity limit the bullet was designed to operate at.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chapter 8 Muzzleloading Bullets by Bryce M. Towsley

P 190 A ML bullet kills game primarily by tissue caused by direct contact with the bullet rather than any hydrostatic action.

P 195. The round ball kills game with an effectiveness that outshines the math.

P. 203 Maybe they’re not sexy to look at, but a .54-caliber T/X maxi-ball gets the job done. Every deer I shot with it had a large entry hole, a bigger exit hole and a blood trail that Stevie Wonder could follow…… Big bullets kill better.


P 206. We are asking the rather simple pistol bullets of the time to do something they were never intended to do. …. The muzzle velocity of a ML using the same bullet is often approaching 2,000 fps. The bullets can’t handle it and come apart on impact, resulting in poor penetration.

P 210 Extensive testing of ML bullets has shown that the higher velocity of magnum charges does not guarantee deeper penetration. In fact, usually the opposite is true. The key is the bullet’s terminal ballistic characteristics. An overwhelming majority of ML bullets will over-expand or fragment, which impedes penetration, when impact velocity approaches 2,000 fps. When testing both 100 and 150g propellant charges, it is common to find the bullet using the lighter charge will penetrate deeper.

I have read the the ML chapter 3 times and castbullets a couple of timeand I keep learning things. I recommend the book, it cost 34.95 with $3 shipping you can order it online at http://www.ramworks.net/. I didn't realize that cast bullets are so good, they have excellent penetration capability, but don't expand as much. There is a whole chapter on how to make them. Maybe that is what your Bull Stops are that folks keep talking about for the White Rifle.




There is a chapter on bullet testing, which is very good. The book is definitely worth the $38 price, and would be a great gift for a hunter or shooter. I will probably get my brother a copy for his birthday. You will have to reread several chapters multiple times.

Chap Gleason

HuntAway

Chapman,

Expansion, is one thing I have always wonderedabout with ML's. The best .30 cal bullet giving 2x expansion is .60 inch. Now a .490 ball is almost there to start with. Bore size conicals closer still and generally go straight through. I think the expansion thing is over rated in ML's as they start with a 1/2 inch hole and expand from there. 50 cal holes let a whole lot of air out.

Here's a pic of a PR DC after shooting it through a 5 gb pail lenghtwiseof packed earth like your test. It was partially embedded in a 2x6 behind the pail.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/HuntAway/BeforeAfter.jpg

gleason.chapman

HuntAway, I have wondered the same thing, how much expansion, how much penetration how should a bullet be designed over a velocity range. Wow, the expansion on that was over an inch, that is knock down power. And I know those bullets are accurate as heck. I got from this book that cast Bullets like the LBT cast that Cabelassellsare the best penetrating bullet for big game (elk, grizzly, etc) and you can load them in a sabot.
This chart that I read a few years ago impressed me, but I didn't have a clue what a cast bullet was made of or why it was so good:
http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/TSD%20Wound%20Chart-MZ.xls

Further, fellows like Craig Boddignton shot a soft point 1st at a Cape Buffalo, but have a solid or cast bullet (flat point) for killing if the buffalo charges. I can't figure why a flat nose cast has all the killing power and penetration but apparently it is a killer. These thingsreally interest andintregeme. I find bullet selection and bullet theory really really missing in the hunting classes and my general huntingeducation. The book is really really interesting. Chap Gleason

HuntAway

Just goes to show you that maybe our forefather's may have known a thing or two. Big lead, low velocities, hit like bricks! Interesting concept. Take the maxi hunter and maxi ball from TC, pretty much the same bullet as far as weight is concerned but design (intent / use)wise they're totally different.

gleason.chapman

Yep, big lead, low velocities hit like ton of bricks, sort of against small, high velocity andshooting long distances. It said in the book that a .45-70 BP bullet would shoot clear thru a buffalo and out theother side, the largest land mammal in North America. That amazed me, they sure did know their guns and bullets.
Chap Gleason

nchawkeye

There's really not much said that you quoted that most experienced hunters don't know...The biggest problem I see is everyone wants to buy the latest gadget and think it will help them fill their tag...I have killed 30 or so deer with a .530 ball and 80 grains Goex, they die just as quickly when shot through the lungs as one hit with a .270...

Something else that some deer hunters can't understand...Hit a deer in the lungs with a 7mm Mag bullet that is designed for elk and he will run farther than that same deer hit with a .243 100gr bullet...Simply because most of the energy of the 7mm Mag ends up in the dirt on the other side of the deer,but most of the energy from the .243 is expended in the deer...

gleason.chapman

I don't think most experienced hunters know these things. I think most experienced MLer many know them but not general hunters. I think most hunters, get a gun an 30-06 or a 270 and they shoot what their friends do or what they learned growing up. They don't question bullets/loads etc.

As for the 7mm Mag example and the.243,why is that? You state it as fact, i think it is better to shoot thru a deer rather than expending all theenergy inside the deer and having little blood trail. I agree both deer willbe dead, but which one has better recovery, I would say that is with a shoot thru.With a hit in the lungs and not going thru you got a 100+ yards of blood trail recovery to figure our with only a blood trail with a 1/4" hole, not good.
Chap Gleason

WinchesterX150

I never learned my loads from any book, just load up and give it a try.

sabotloader

nchawkeye

For the most part I disagree with your evaluation even your round ball evaluation.... In niether one of your statements did you include "range" and or Xwinds - range is the great equallizer. Your round ball gun would be marginal out here in the west and the open spaces. Sure there are shots of 50 yards or less, probably lots of them but there is also a great chance of a big shot over 100 yards in a clearcut or across a draw.

In your estimation of the 243 vs the 7mm - I disagree because even as the 7mm does usually pass through (which I prefer)in a hurry and still has a lot of energy going away from the deer... the hydrosatatic damage that the velocity & projectile weight of the 7mm can do far outweighs the 243. The 7mm will likely liquify theevery vital organ in the cavity. Granted at closer ranges the 243 will perform just fine on thin skinned deer, extend the range and the 243 will start to deminish.

I am also not saying that the 243 will not do the job, but the 7mm will do the job over a wider range of varibilities.... personally I would not use either one for deer - my choice would be a 270.

Just my personal opinion....

gleason.chapman

Your pretty brave. Lets say your buying a savage smokeless MLer, would you just load up 80g of smokeless and try it, without knowing any load info or info about powders?Chap Gleason