tight fit
 

Boys, had a ball tonight getting scope dialed in on my Optima. Finally used up all my power belts so I thought I would try some hornady .452 xtp. They came with the black sabots. They shot real well but were a real tight fit. In fact, they were so tight, I bent my ram rod. Its a little flatter in spots but at least its straight.

Any problem using a little bore butter as a lube to help these sabots along?

RE: tight fit
 

I've heard of people using a little bore butter, but Thompson Center in the manual advises there is no need to. I would instead go to a Harvester Crushed Rib sabot or a MMP hp-24 sabot.

RE: tight fit
 

Cayudad, are those the light green sabots? I know these sabots are color coded....I need to write it down!

RE: tight fit
 

oldrookie

If you bought a Hornady package of .452's and sabots, the sabots that you got are more than likely MMP HPH-12's their thickest .451/.452 50 caliber sabot. You probably should drop down to a HPH-24 or even a HPH 3p-EZ load sabot. You will also find it cheaper to buy a box of bulk bullets and a package of sabots... that fit you bore...

A lot of people do exactly what you are suggesting and seem to have no ill effects.... it would be my suggestions to follow cayugads lead and find some thinner sabots....


Of course I am not Dave but I believe he would tell you the most often the green sabots are .429/.430 - 44 cal.... most often but not always .451/.452 sabots are black.... These colors are a not always true from brand to brand....

RE: tight fit
 

the .452 are normally black in color. I use the Harvester Crushed Rib with a lot of projectiles and have excellent luck with them. Then next MMP order though, I am going to stock up on some of the other sabots as well.

RE: tight fit
 

Thanks guys. Both of you have posted this info a million times. I wrote it down this time! I'll use a little butter to get rid of these loads and order some thinner sabots. Gander Mtn here only has the pre-packaged hornady and the sabots mentioned above.

I'll tell you, as far as accuracy, the hornady went toe to toe with the powerbelts in my Optima. I was using the 245g HP with 80g of 777 pellets.

Thanks again for the information.

RE: tight fit
 

They are NOT green, they are black. Here is the exact one I buy for the .452 Hornady bullets,online at MidSouth Shooter's supply:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00072H15045BR

Hint, when you order online at MidSouth, place the sabots and any bullets you buy in your Wish List, then when you need to order they are ready to go. They are only $5.00 for 50 of them. Cabelas charges $7.99 for the exact same thing.
Chap Gleason

RE: tight fit
 

I learn a LOT from this forum. When I learn something I print it to PDF with a FREE PDF writer SOFTWARE such as cutepdf:

www.cutepdf.com

Then I store it in one of my "hunting folders" such as Flintlock. If you bookmark the thread in your favorites after about 1 year it is gone from the server. In this way you have a printable copy and you know who said what on What day. Below is an Example of a few of the folders below my hunting folder.

Chap Gleason

RE: tight fit
 

And here is an example of the PDF of a Forum Topic, note that it is viewed as a PDF, not an HTML file. The free PDF creator works with ANY Software and is a printer driver in your Printer Folder. Hope that is helpful to you and others on the Forum.
Chap Gleason

RE: tight fit
 

Thanks Chap! You are one organized man. Yes, I have now started a binder to keep this information in. Ordered 3 bags of the crushed sabots. Now that I have a slightly flattened but straight rod.....it is destined for hunting purposes only. Suggestions on range rods? I know...I know this has been posted before but now I will print it and save it.

RE: tight fit
 

Thanks for the complement on being organized. A binder is a good idea. 3 bags of crushed ribs will get you started, I order a bag or two every time I order bullets from MidSouth. As for a Replacement rod:

http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm

and the longer one can be used for a Range Rod.
Chap

RE: tight fit
 

Chap

RE: tight fit
 

:DConical loader ;)AKA sabot loader advised me to roll the sabot on the tongue one time. I found it helps to get the tight ones down the bore.

:) Al

RE: tight fit
 

Thanks for the tip alleyyooper. Sounds like everyone tries something before they resort to slapping butter down that barrel.

Hey Chap, while on Midsouths site, I did not see the hornady xtp in bulk. You shoot HPs or the SST?

RE: tight fit
 

Oldrook

Hornady 300 grain XTP

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000345230

Now this is just my opinion, but i really beleive this is a better game bullet...

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000213974

These two forum topics might help you understand why I feel so strongly about this....

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1791957

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1794250

Which ever one you choose - they will do the job...

mike

RE: tight fit
 

As always, thanks for the info Sabotloader. I'll order a box of the speers along with the hornadys. You guys dont make it easy on the rookie. I wanted to start with a "short list" of loads to get acquainted with the sport.

My short list keeps growing.....but I am loving it!

RE: tight fit
 

Oldrook

This thing we ML'ing is the most satisfying active that I do these days... well most of the time

RE: tight fit
 

Sabotloader,before switching to the speers did you shoot the hornadys for any length of time? If so, other than your destiny to find a perfect load, whatwas it about the xtp that you didn't care for?

RE: tight fit
 

oldrook

I actually shot the Hornady's a whole lot in fact i still have 3 boxes of .452 - 300 grain XTP's and 4 boxes of 300 grain .430 XTP's... They were and are still a very accurate bullet. They work great shooting paper and have worked great on game for many years. (I'll make you a good deal on them if you want them)

I made the switch because as much as I shot the bullets and then started recovering them, some of them I wouldfind thelead completly stripped out of the copper... I should also say that this does not hold true in the case of the 10mm 200 grain XTP - it hangs together in everthing I have tried.

The Speer's, which i call a"poorman's Nosler" are a bonded bullet... the lead can not strip from thecopper, anyway I can not make it happen. Also the BC of the Speer .232 is much higher than the XTP. When you look at the nose construction of the bullet you can see why it will expand so very well.

Were you able to look at the thread "additional recovered Gold Dots", can not remember what all was in the thread but i think I put in pictures of what I have found.

Personally, I really like the 250 grain Gold Dots for deer out to 175 yards, but the 300 grain GD's will fly a little better. Ballistically these bullets will not fly as well as the SST or the ShockWave at long ranges but I think they (Gold Dots) are more effective through out the entire range of the bullet than the Hornady's...

I found it, this is the picture I was telling you about. You can see the
hornady copper on the left - most of the lead gone and the Speers on the right...

RE: tight fit
 

Oldrookie,
I use the HP for practice, since they are only $11 for 50. I use Nosler Partitions 300g for hunting, but I only have 1 box left which I will use this year, but I have about 4 or 5 boxes of Speer gold dot now (Sabotloader recommendation)and I will use them for both target and hunting, since they are about as expensive as the Hornady XTP. I have a friend that shoots the 240g Hornady with 2 777 pellets. His statement is that deer are killed quicker with the 240g Hornady with 100g of 777 than with a 150g out of a 270. That is my experience also, boom--flop most of the time. In my state and county, we have 3 buck limit, but unlimited doe from 1st Saturday in November to 1st saturday of Feburay, so 3 months of hunting season, which is great. You must however be selective of bucks or you can burn your tags too early and miss an opportunity at a monster.
Chap Gleason Va

RE: tight fit
 

I am really trying to work on a reliable deer hunting load for this fall. I have a CVA Optima .50 and here in Indiana it is rare to have a open shot beyond 125 yards. Right now, I am using 80g 777 pellets until I get the hang of it.

I assume at that range there would be very little difference between the groups of either the 250 or 300g speer? There isn't much difference with the hornady at least with my Optima.

As all of us, when I take a shot at game; I have an obligation to put them down as quickly as possible. I did see your pics of the recovered speers and they were impressive. Being new to muzzleloading, maybe I made an assumption about hornady that came premature.

RE: tight fit
 

Oldrookie


I really do not think that you have made a premature decision... The XTP's have taken one heck of a lot of game over the years and are considered very reliable by a lot of people. It seems like centuries ago now but i use to be a Hornady fan when I was into center fires... then somewhere along the line 30 or 40 years I got a 300 Win Mag and started shooting elk with a 220 grain Hornady round nose bullet. I was, at that time, a pretty decent elk hunter and I took an elk every year. My first 3 elk were taken with the Hornady bullet, but in every case I would find the copper just under the hide into the meat a little bit and the lead blown to bits all over inside. I really did not like this performace - so I switched to Nolser Partitions - never had that problem again. The Nosler partition is the best bullet on the planet as far as I am concerned but, the price of the bullet has put it beyond my reach - so I have been on a serch for a bullet that would eventually replace the Nosler. To this date it is the Speer Gold Dot - it seems to function relativly like the Nosler - I like that...

I would almost guarantee that... My personal preference is 300 grain for elk and 250 grain for deer. When you look at the hollow point on the 250 and then add in the fact that it is bonded... it will do the job easily to 150 shooting dead on. I am one of those people that want a pass through, I am also one of those people that want the bullet to perform while passing through. I do not want the bullet to make a nice clean whole through, I want tremedous hydrostatic shock to occur as it passes through. The 250 does that on a thin skinned animal like a deer.

I would up your charge as soon as you fill confident and comfortable to 100 grains of T7 loose powder I say loose becuase a 100 grains of loose is a lot different than a 100 grains of pellet T7. Pellets are designed to be very comparable to real Black powder or Pyro. Loose is 15% more than pellets, probably more like 10%, but Hornady wants to be safe so they advise 15%.

AMEN - I am to old be be following a wounded or even a dead animal that takes off running through the woods... it just aint fun anymore. I want to anchor that animal right where he stands, OK I'll give them 20 yards, but that is enough. That is why i feel the "hydrostatic shock" is so important, not just the penetration of the projectile.

RE: tight fit
 

Oh, that is why you changed your name! :D

RE: tight fit
 

I too was a Nosler fan, Was All I ever loaded in any thing. They then started packing half the bullets in the same price box(now about $1.60 a bullet for 300gr. partitions).I started my search for some thing different that works. I now use Hornaday A Maxes a lot, Speer Gold Dots and Mag tips, Plus some Serrias.
For deer I have not had a problem with the HP XTP's in both 230gr. .451dia. and 240gr. .429dia.
I have both 250gr. and 300gr Gold Dotsbut havn't had the conditions to test them as I want yet.

:) Al

RE: tight fit
 

I find that the 250g XTPs and lower don't go thru a deer, the 300g do, so you have a nice blood trail. Now you loose some range, but only about 25 yards and you get better knock down power. I have not shot elk, but that is my experience with deer.
Chap Gleason

RE: tight fit
 

Yes, I noticed that also, that my first box of Noslers was $9.95 for 100 bullets, from Ackleys in Westfield Penna. Next time I bought itfrom Cabelas was$16 for 50. then $21 for 50. Then $26 for 50. Then $32 or $36for 50, now they are $50 for 50. So I am shooting my last box this year. Chap Gleason

RE: tight fit
 

Assuming I had pulled up the correct bullet, Midsouth has them for around a buck apiece. As I get closer to hunting season, I will give them a try. I got my order in on the speers and xtps. They were back ordered on the 250s for both. Being the impatient soul that I am, I went ahead and ordered the 300s in each. Looking forward to trying both with the crush sabots I ordered as well.

I was going to order the knight range rod everyone talked about that I thought was 30-31 inches. The longest I found on Midsouth was 28", so I passed.

Getting out tomorrow with the 250 xtp and the tight mmp sabots so I can use the sabots up.....we shall see what happens. Enjoy the day!

RE: tight fit
 

oldrookie

Speaking of range rods, I wanted to share with you the Tipton Rod. I have two of these range rods - I have one in the the truck to use in the field and one in the house to use as a cleaning rod.... Do not know if they would work for you but, they are a really cool carbon fiber rod with a rotating handle....




http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/654574.html

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=668300

Might want to look at this information

http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/StaticPages/pdf/Instructions/Carbon%20Fiber%20Rod%20Instr.pdf

Expensive but really strong....

Good luck
mike

RE: tight fit
 

Yep, they were about $1 each. This is the bullet I use:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0011545350

SabotLoader uses the .45-70 bullet, which is a bit longer. I have shot both and they both shoot the same out of my Omega. Either will do the job no problem.

Not something that you can do a lot of shooting/practice with. This is a bullet that came out of my 2006 ML buck, shot in the brisket facing me at about 50 yards. The bullet went the whole length of the deer and was under the hide in the hip, so it shot the whole length of the deer. Look at the perfect mushroom and it lost very little weight. Most other deer I have hit with these just drop and they go right thru like butter. Chap Gleason

RE: tight fit
 

Nice pic Chap. No, I can't see a steady diet on the range at that price. I'll get dialed in with the Speers and then pick up a box of Noslers to see how similar they are as far as groups.

Sabotloader....Knight and Traditions both make a fiberglass rod. Would you recommend fiberlass over aluminum?

RE: tight fit
 

Sabotloader...with regards to the post above, I should have said graphite rod and not fiberglass.

RE: tight fit
 

Anyone used the golddots in a Savage 10ML2?

RE: tight fit
 

oldrookie

My opinion graphite, carbon fiber would be my personal choice for a range rod or cleaning rod... I do use aluminum for ram rods only - they very seldom go down the barrel other than a hunting situation...