dual powders?
 

Over the weekend I had a conversation with a fellow enthusiast and we wound up talking about ignition problems from bringing guns indoors etc.. He suggested the possibility of using a combination of Goex and Pyrodex, perhaps loading 20 grains of Goex then 70 Pyrodex to provide better ignition and still have a pretty clean burning charge. Worth trying?

RE: dual powders?
 

I have duplexed a lot of loads. Mostly so substitute powders could shoot better in flintlock rifles. There is nothing wrong with doing that. A little Goex can really jump start other powders, BUT if you read most powder sites they do not recommend mixing powders.

RE: dual powders?
 

Since the ignition temp of Pyrodex is higher than that of Goex, adding Pyrodex to Goex will not improve ignition...

If he is trying to reduce condensation, keep it outside....Or better yet, shoot it and clean it for the next session...

RE: dual powders?
 

Somehow i do not seem to have a problem with condensation. Sometimes my muzzleloaders stay loaded with granular powder for a month or more and they always go bang. They are always brought into the house.On 22 Febuary i shot a hog with an Encore that was loaded on 2 February.

RE: dual powders?
 

Mixing of powders is not a good idea at all, but when you pour a base of Goex down, then level the load and pour your Pyrodex, APP, Pinnacle, Triple Se7en, or what, I see no harm in it. All the Goex is doing is creating that burst of fire and heat that the substitue powders need.

If humidity and condensation is the problem, that is a whole different animal. Even a duplexed load will fail if subjected to conditons of barrel condensation and humidity.

RE: dual powders?
 

Cayugad - but will it fail as quickly? Igather from previous discussions that Pyrodex attracts water more readily than BP, so it would stand to reason that BP at the fire source would increase the liklihood of dischard, no?

RE: dual powders?
 

I can buy a pound of Goex for $11.55 a pound, I've tried Pyrodex, first time was in the '70s when it came out, I've tried 777...Frankly I still use Goex 90% of the time.

RE: dual powders?
 

Maybe it is just where I live, but no matter what kind of powder I use, if I store them in an out building over night ... I run a real good risk of the rifle will not fire or might misfire.

If you have a lot of moisture in your area, I would suggest shoot the rifle off at the end of the day, or pull the charge if possible.. Then clean the rifle and start fresh the next day.

While that is a lot of work, the chance of missing a big shot because I was not willing to put in some effort cleaning a rifle just does not seem like a good trade off. Others will leave the rifle for weeks. I seldom let them sit over night.

RE: dual powders?
 

yeoman

I have to agree with alsaqrI really have not had this problem at all. I leave my guns loaded weeks at a time, I take them in and out of the house and the truck. The one thing I do not do is bring in a really cold gun into a really warm room - it needs to warm slowly...

Both Cayugad and I did some experimenting with this problem a couple of months back... I left my gun outside on the patio loaded for a week bringing it in the garage then the house every evening. It got rained on snowed on and froze during this tme. Took it to the rock pit at the end of the test - it shot just fine...

You can look back in the pages and probably find both experiments. These guns are not as delicate as a lot of people think.

RE: dual powders?
 

Sabotloader - I particiated in those posts, though not the experiments. What I found this year, after paying close attention (and having a misfire on a big 8 pointer) was that my sidelock, loaded with Pyrodex, brought inside following a morning hunt, would fire when taken back out that evening for a hunt. When kept inside over the following night, the risk of misfire increased substantially. I don't recall whether either of your tests included a sidelock? Either way I should conduct my own experiment, but I'm not crazy about discharging a gun on the property unless something dies when I do. Thought this idea worth floating.

RE: dual powders?
 

yeoman

Ouch.... no my experiments were with a Remington Inline...

The key for me is not to warm up the barrel to fast if you see condensation forming on the out side then it is probably forming on the inside. When we come in from hunting, even in 20 below weather the gun, either inline or sidehammer goes in the truck with for the drive home. But, the truck cab is 20 below also or there about, then as we drive the gun warms slowly (never really heat the cab up - just take the chill off) - from the truck it comes in and stands in the back room. I take all waether protection off and 1/2 cock the hammer - then the gun can breath... The other thing with sidelocks I have given up on 2f powder @ 20 below and using a cap it is hard to get T7 started. So we now use T7-3f and we take a lot of care in pouring in just a bit then tapping it over under the nipple - the 3f moves over really easy, the 2f not so easy... We have found out if we have a dead air space between the nipple and the main charge (other words) the flash channel we do not always get a positive ignition in really cold weather, warmer weather 25 and above above the 2f works pretty good.

RE: dual powders?
 

I don't have a gradual warm up opportunity since I'm frequently coming from the stand to the house, but I've never seen condensation on the outside of the gun. Then, I might be coming from +20 degrees into the house, but that's about as cold as is likely. What has tipped me off is when I pull a bullet, almost no powder falls from the barrel when turned upside down. I have to send a ramrod down with puller to break up the powder, several times, before most of it will pour out. There's just enough mositure to form a slight crust which I suspect is more difficult to ignite, almost like a pellet. So, now do you think Goex would solve that under the Pyrodex?

RE: dual powders?
 

yeoman

Powder compacts... even when I pull the breech plug on a rifle I can not get the powder to pour out....

When I was doing those experiments - I brought the rifle into an unheated garage for a couple of hours before coming in the house... The one pic I saw of your gun you had a scope on it - check and see if a fog layer forms on the scope when you come in - it is even more sensitive than the barrel. Do you cover your muzzle? when in the cold, wet, damp weather? If your gun has the deep lands and grooves that doesn't help either.

Just throwing out thoughts - not that any of them will help... I think cayugad said it best - if in doubt get it out...

That I am not sure of because I have never duplexed any loads.

Another thought that just jumped up from the depths... When i put Pyro in water it wen imediately to a black sludge - when I dropped T7 in water it retained it's shape and the water did not turn black... is it coated with something - I do not know... and do not get me wrong the T7 was ruined but it did not go to sluged until you stirred it...

RE: dual powders?
 

Not this year.

No, no, no and no. This problem was occuring in cool, damp to dry weather. Although, our "dry" is similar to your most humid days in Idaho.

I think if I get the GM barrel for the gun I'm looking at I may go to 777.

thanks

RE: dual powders?
 

Ihave never once had a gun misfire-even in the worst conditions. Furthermore, my room in the basement is very humid and it still didn't affect it.

I don't think you need to worry about it one bit.

RE: dual powders?
 

Outdoors - read the posts again. The gun failed to fire on a big 8 pointer this year, and that was not the first time. I don't need to worry about it if I don't mind "catch and release" deer hunting. Of greater concern to me is the potential for a poor shot resulting from incomplete combustion and altered point of impact. Worse than a misfire.

RE: dual powders?
 

yeoman

All of these are possible - that would concern me also... it took me 3/4 years to figure this traditional hunting thing out and now I think I know when I had better clear the load... but, someday i know it might bite me in the _ _ _, then I'll be mad and the only person I can blame is myself...

RE: dual powders?
 

Here in western OK the daily extremes in temperature are not that great in winter. Humidity, however is high.Unless the gun has been fired or has gotten really soaked, i don't unload it at the end of the day.It is carried in a hard case to and from hunting-i bring it in the house and take it out of the case. Sometimes it stays loaded for weeks.

RE: dual powders?
 

What you could do to feel a little more comfortable is upgrade to a mustket nipple/cap. I did that on my first Mler that wasnt very reliable with #11's. You can even buy these little pink rubber slips that go over a #11 cap, put that on the 11 nipple and a musket cap slides over it snuggly. Its works like a charm and you'll never have to change nipples. Its worth a shot.

I dont see how putting 10-20 grains of real BP down the bore would be better seeing how BP is a lot more sensitive to humidity and attracts it. I'd just try my lil tip and leave it loaded for a few days and see how it goes off when you're ready.
My dad went home empty lastyear when his cabelas hawken misfired due to no powder being in the nipple drum area. That was a disapointment.