Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Got back out this afternoon to do some more conical shooting. I was in Kennewick this weekend and Casecadedad gave me a a box of Bull Shop 460 grain .504 conicals. I really wanted to get out and shoot these + since I changed fron sites I wanted to try that also.

The .504's were more difficult to start than the 460 NE's (.503) that I had shot the week before, but it was only right at the muzzle, once in the muzzle and on the way down they went down real smooth.

I must have shot 25 of them and every so often I would tell myself - I am going to stay with the .503's then I would talk myself out of it and decide I would use the .504's...

I stayed with the T7-3f - 70 grain load - producing about 1400 fps muzzle velocity. I did not set up the chrono today but I might be getting a little more velocity from the tighter bullets, but I think the difference would be minor. Using the .125 - .510 shot card seemed to work well again.

I set the target at 50 yards and started shooting, as I had bore sighted the new sights with a laser bore sighter. I could never reach the elevation @ 50 that I wanted the TC sight is topped out, so I am going to have to remove the front ramp sight supplied with the barrel and install a TC front sight also, which is really to bad because I liked the looks of the front ramp sight. I never did get to the comfort level I wanted for shooting @ 50 yards. I then started shooting killable targets @ the end of the rock pit about 100 yards. But I was continually hitting low...

At the end of the day I had 3 bullets left on the top layer of the box so I decided I would move the target back to 100 and take the last three shots. Well this is where I got lucky... shot one was right about where I would expect it to be. Shot two was my fault but i didn't feel I had that bad of a sight picture... Shot three was right back there with #1. The last thing I did was laser the target - lasered at 92.5 yards. Now! if I could hold a pattern like 1 & 3 with open sights @ 100 I would really be happy.... Just really need to shoot a whole lot more with open sights - scopes just make it to easy....

Well anyway here is the 92 yard target....

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

I would sure not be upset with a target at 100 yards (92.5) that looked like that. Next time out, just try them without the card and see what happens. It looks like with a little sight adjustment or replacement in your case, you're going to have a nice shooting rifle with the big lead bullets.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Sabotloader try 20grns of cornmeal as a buffer instead of the card the cornmeal has worked better for me than anything else I've tried plus its the cheapest.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Looks great to me. The second shot was more than likely a sight alignment issue or flinch. Is that a 2 or 3" circle? I find i shoot better with a 2" orange sticker. But you're off to a great start so far. Its not so hard is it?! :D... You dont need no stinkin scope!

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

bdeather

I might try the cornmeal later, but I am not sure what good it would do me for hunting. I would have to carry to speed loaders or two containers, so I do not see me going in that direction... I need to shoot with what ever I am going to hunt with.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

I understand what your saying but I have found that for a follow up shot the conicals shoot plenty good enough without any kind of buffer. Its that first shot that is the most important in my opinion.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Mike, That looks prettygood to me, especially after 25 shots. Only 70g, that is light, but it appears to be giving you accuracy. How big is the circle. I can't tell from the paper. Chap

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

gleason, 70 grains of powder behind a 460 grain conical is not "light". Plenty of power to get the job done.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Ditto on the 70/460 combo. Plenty of punch left at 100 for North American big game.

Guessing that's a 6" circle and a 3" group. Nothing shabby about that Conicaloader. I'll be very impressed if you can work that combo onto the target face 6/6 @ 100. That would be a fine hunting-ready base and you can experiment from there. Great start. Want to sell that scope!

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

With iron sights I would be more than happy with that group. My son went to Alabama this morning for the last dat of deer season. He took his old Hawkins 50 cal percussion. He called about 15 min ago and he had shot a nice meat doeat about 45 yards and he said it was a "hoot" to use the old iron site ML. he did see a couple of small bucks but I have a rule of 4 on one side or u put $100 in the charity box.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Chap

The orange dot is a 6" dot. At 100 yards the front blade will cover most of the dot, and trying to set the dot on top of the blade is not all that easy to define where the edge of the dot is.

I actually have a much better 100 yard open sight target but I wasn't really planning on shooting a 100 because I couldn't get the to 50 yard target to come up where I wanted it.

While I agree with you 70 grains doesn't seem like a lot of powder, the velocity of the those 460's should be plenty. I will probably in the end move to 80 grains for the final hunting load. I am just trying to figure how to shoot grenades. 80 grains of 3f will drive that bullet @ 1500fps which for that size chunk of lead is moving on by most peoples measurements.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

oldwun

I really like that rule - we will have to start that in our small hunting group. The group is so "dam" compeitive that will add incentive. I say the group is competitive, I want you to know that is the other3 guys, I am not that competitive of course.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Mike,

One shouldn't judge that load by the powder. That 460 NE gets more out of that 70 grains than a lighter bullet. In fact around 35% more energy than a 300 grain projectil. This is because it will develop more pressure, which elevates muzzle energy. Peak pressure is probably just a little less than 100 grains 2f 777 and 300 grain saboted bullet. So 70 grains will definitely work well for thumping.

I may be wrong, but I personally prefer the 460, with impact energy equal to a 300 grain bullet, for a number of reasons. Yes the energies are the same, but there is more momentum behind the 460, meaning it can penetrate deeper. Its slower velocity means that it will waste less energy at the surface and enter the vitals with more energy. Fast bullets do waste considerabe energy at the surface which is why we put jackets on the things, so they won't fly apart. Jackets do help to prevent fast movingbullets from flying apart, but they don't keep them from wasting a greater proportion of their energy at the surface. Had chap ran a 460 charged with 70 grains up that doe's anus, it (the 460 NE) would never have been recovered the way the 300 gold dot was. Would have gone right through her.

If you take an animal with this load, I think you will be very impressed with how it knocked the snot out of it and with so little powder.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Excellent rule, you raised him well oldwun. Congratulations to him on the doe. Chap gleason Va

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

That is another thread, no jumping threads allowed on forum, rule number 1.6.5.3 subparagraph 4.
:->
Now we have 460g Texas Heart Shots. Interesting that the 70g produced that much energy, but the bullet is huge. Wonder what the drop is at 100 yards with 50 yard sight in.
Chap

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Definitely pertinant to this thread. You questioned his load for ability and its better than the load you chose for the Pennsyvania heart shot. I put in that context so that sabotloader would have confidence that his load could get the job done and that your doubts about that shouldn't concern him at all.

It makes sense that it produces more energy. Energy is directly dependent on the pressure curve. With 70 grains, there is more pressure with a 460 than 300.

As far as drop at a hundred yard, refer to the trajectory below. I know this isn't as flat as a 300 gold dot, but I know in terms of whacking the snot out of something, it will do better than the 300 gold dot charged with 100 grains of blackpowder (which is itself waymore than sufficient). As far as anus shots, you know I would never recommend it myself but who would I be to advise against it?

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

That right there is the best internet joke any of you will read in your lifetime!!!!!!! :D:D:D

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Yes, I see the numbers Phil and how the bigger bullet with smaller charge has more energy than a 300g with a 100g charge, and holds it longer down range. Just made more sense to me to use a bigger load to get the bullet going. I am not a ballistics expert, it was counter intuitive to me. Thanks for your correction and pointing out the relevancy of it.
Chap Gleason VA

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

I never really liked the big bullets either untill i started shooting the tc maxi hunters and the great plains bullets, but i tell you, they really are nice, drop the charge down some and add a heavier bullet and you got the better deal going on. Sure it gets out there a little slower, how much slower? Who knows but im really liking the 385 GP bullets. 14 shots withou swabbed and getting 1" groups was pretty awesome. But i dont think i will ever use anything bigger than the 385's, 385 is pushing my buttons, i prefer the 350 grain maxi hunters due to easier loading but i'll struggle a little with the GP bullets if they offer me the best groups.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Sabotloader.. if you want to experiment, I get good accuracy with 85 grains of Triple Se7en 2f and the 500 grain conical. If you have a chance to throw that over your chronograph, I would be real interested in the fps.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

cayugad

Dave the largest conical I have is the 460 but shooting a 85 grain load across a chrono for you would be no problem.... Next time I am out with the chrono - I'll shoot a 460 with 85 grains... What are you shooting the 500's from? (I guess I am assuming the White)

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

I am shooting them out of the GMB stainless also. I have yet to push them too hard in that rifle, but that is the conical of choice in the White.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

cayugad

Ok next time out, if I get a chance to set up the chrono I will get a reading for you, but again it will be the 460 and I will shoot 2f.

I am thinking that I might (maybe) be getting a little better velocity form the Bull Shops than I am the NE's only because they are a bit tighter in the barrel.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

I'll look for those results too. That's about the powder charge I use (65 grains by weight =~82 grains by volume in FFg T7) behind both the 460 and 496/7 grain bullets I've been using.

RE: Bull Shops in the Rock Pit
 

Mike, I have some of the 500 gr BS's in .504. :) Next time you come over, bring your chrono and we'll test them. I also have some Swiss fff that we cancompare to the 777. We'll have a good ole time.