RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

Zugunruhe,

I was under the impression that you own a Kodiak Pro. If you do, you wont need the dam. You will notice that the compartments can be filled and hold epoxy as the "dams" are built in as part of the plastic stock. In the Apex this is not the case. Look at the image below. The red pattern shows the original construction of the plastic of the Apex stock. Without the green dam, epoxy would have covered the spring area. By using the dam, I was able to fill the space between each of the red "ribs".

Added:
I after the epoxy set, the dam was removed. If one does this with their Apex, I would recommend that you do one compartment at a time, removing the dam between "pourings", this will make removing the dam easier. Also the dam should fit right down on the surfaces the spring rests on so that the epoxy doesn't interfere with the spring's function. Basically you have the same stock as before, only there is epoxy between all the ribs.

If you have a Kodiak the dam, a wall of plastic,is already there.

RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

I've got the plain jane Kodiak, my stock looks just like MOArcher's on the inside. There are several reinforcing "webs" (for lack of a better word) that I think really lend themselves to being filled with epoxy/JB Weld to increase strength and rigidity.

RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

As long as there is no way for the filler to flow into the area the spring and ramrod go, then you should have no problems. I think your stock and Mo Archers are the same as mine in construction. I don't have mine with me, but I think I could fill the compartments on the sides without any worries for the interior.I think no other ML rifle out there, with a synthetic stock,has more support for recoil as my Apex does or Kodiak will havewith these modifications.

RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

I don't think we should let Eric in on the fact that we are discussing this on the forum as they may use it for their 'advantage'. When I spoke with Eric the first time he informed me that he would send me a shipping label for me to return my stock at no cost to me.....I then asked him about the time and told him I planned on using the gun and that 3 weeks was too long so he agreed to send me the stock before hand. I hate that I 'sparked' this 'panic' of these stocks. My original stock was cracked alot more than what my current one is cracked and anything that nay of you are describing. It actually had a 6" crack in front of the front lug compartment. I am going to shoot it more and see if it develops the same cracks and play it by ear from there. I plan on shooting it in 3 round sessions on Friday and keeping a close eye on the cracks. I will document it with pictures and share with all.

RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

MO Archer,

I think you are right about keeping Eric in the dark, at least for now. While I don't think my cracks are going to be a major issue for me, I would still like to leverage it into something nice. One thing I thought was to negotiate a reduced at cost price for the laminate stock for consolation of the cracking U's. Something perhaps that we could all participate in. A gesture of good will which they could afford to do if they were onlywilling.

I'm gonna be shooting my Kodiak just as soon as they open my range. Mine is floated right now and I'm going to leave it that way for the moment. I'm wanting to see if floating helps reduce additional cracking as I suspect itwill. You could shoot yours fully bedded, as a comparison, or you could shoot yours floated as a control to test if it confirms my findings.

RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

I checked the stock on my Kodiak last night, I have just the tiniest of hairline cracks starting on the front lug. They look line the ones you pointed out on yours Phil.

So you think floating the barrel alone will solve the problem, or is it going to require reinforcing with epoxy like you did? The interior of my stock looks just like the one in your picture come to find out.

RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

I will just try to summarize my thoughts and answer your question as best I can. What I would like to soJohn, is not give a specific recommendation, rather, give you the impressions I have and how, for me, it will affect my course of action. Then my impressions, coupled with your own, might give you the information you need to make a decision on the course of action which is right for you.

1. I think once a crack is there, it will get bigger with time. This will happen whether you float or not, perhaps just from temperature expansions alone while being stored. My sense is that the cracks will neither affect the performance or safety of the rifle. Time will tell on that as we monitor.

2. I think floating will slow down crack progression because it will eliminate the sharp spreading impulses on the stockwhich result from barrel expansion upon discharge. Floating a Kodiak barrels is very simple and floating mine took about 5 minutes. It is my opinion that floating will not harm the Kodiak synthetic stock because, unlike the Omega synthetic stock,it barely reduces the shear surfaces resisting recoil. Floating could improve accuracy and precision, although it may not, so I'd go about it tounge in cheek and see what the results at the range are.

3. On the subject of whether to reinforce or not. I tend to agree with Sabotloader that plastic is a weak enough material that it is susceptible to fail. Given typical use, I think the Kodiak stock will last as long as its your pet rifle. After that, it'll last perhaps a lifetime. And this with no modification. Were the recoil supports showing signs of imminent failure, you could always send it back for a new one and be set again.

My use wont be typical. I will fire the Kodiak and the Apex as many as 300-500 times eachannually for as long as I am enamored with them. I will shoot loads like 435 SSB and 80 grains 2f 777, 620 BS conical and 60 -70 grains of 2f 777 or 70 grains 3f Goex. These load do generate considerable recoil. Over 2.5 times a 12 guage shotgun clays load. While this recoilwill be moderated at my shoulder by the weight of the entire rifle, the recoil at the lug supports will remain the same and it will work hard to destroy the stock.

By reinforcing, I will be increasing the shear area of the recoil suport from less than1/2 square inches to well over 10 square inches. So it will beFAR more sturdy.I worry about the unfortunate possibility, left un-reinforced, I would break the stock right before season,so I am reinforcing it. It is my opinion that my stock will never need to be replaced for failure of recoil support. Imay be taking a chance on the warranty of the stockbut since I do not anticipate using the warranty, the extra confidence it gives me (that I won't be waiting for a stock before season begins or worse ends) is worth it to me.

RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

Phil I very much appreciate your honesty and apparent experience in this area. I may have mentioned this earlier, but I am not a rifle guy. A waterfowler, upland, turkey and slug gun deer hunter, yes, as you can see shotguns are my thing. I know nothing of floating barrels or bedding stocks, other than what I may have seen in Field & Stream or Outdoor Life over the years. I'm in that sponge stage of muzzleloading, soaking up all I can here, but still with enough sense to make my own decisions on things. This forum is by far the best muzzleloading resource on the web, made so by the likes of yourself, cayugad and sabotloader and many others.

I plan to shoot my Kodiak as much as I get the chance, it is just plain enjoyable to do so. I doubt I'll reach the volume you do, but I don't plan to shoot it just once or twice a year either. I've got some 375 SSB's that should be arriving today and I'd like to give the 300gr. Gold Dots a try. I don't plan on loading more than 100gr. of powder, ever, don't see the need to. I would like to see how your load workups go- sounds like you're heading down sabotloader's artillery shell road!:D

RE: Apex Stock Reinforcement
 

John,

Now you'll have two passions :D. You are going to love muzzleloading. The more you shoot, the more you are going to shoot, simple as that really. I see your next black powder weaponbeing a gun, a shotgun that is;). I'm looking forward to reading your experiences with the Kodiak and learning from you. I will share all I learn too. It's gonna be a blast. Now if BLM would just unlock the gate at the range . . .