let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

As my previous post I am looking for honest answers. Some people seem to think I made a previous thread to bash higher end B/P's , that was not my intent.

Being relatively new to B/P hunting I would like to know the real answers.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

bowhunterjohn

I honestly would not say they are undersized. They are tighter than some but really they have been tight all-a-long. Because there is no standard set for ML bores as there is for centerfires some barrels can be tighter or looser than others in the same company line...

Green Mountain barrels are consider tight also and they are the supplier for Knight - actually Knight now ownes them - It use to be that Knightsand a lot of other ML'shad a rather bigger bore - hence the HPH-12 sabot or the sabots supplied with Hornady bullets like the SST's.

The slightly bigger bore use to be more common than it is today...

mike

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

Well my brother in law swears he can't load a Powerbelt down his Omega, but he can load the sabot Shockwaves with no problem? I'm baffled cause my buddy bought a Traditions this year, first muzzleloader, he could load the PB's ok, but the Shockwaves were very tight, so it seems to me the Shockwaves sabot is larger then the PB , am I wrong in assuming this. So if this is the medium then why would a sabotted bullet thats larger then the PB load easier then the PB?

I'm at a loss. I guess being new to all this stuff has got me confused. I've heard so many claims from so many people I don't know what to believe.

I usually go off the manufacture of the bullets balistic charts to start my sighting in, then check each yardage for myself with my gun, bullet and load. I noticed that my shorter barrel gave me more drop then what the charts said. But then I got a guy telling me his M/L and bullet combo shoot better, way better, then its ballistic chart. I mean I get a drop of 4" or so from 100 to 150, then 16 to 200 yards. This guy tells me he's sighted in for 100 but has only 4" of drop at 200 yards? and 14 at 300 yards? I guess I"m really confused. His chart states a 2 1'2 drop at 150 and 11" at 200 and theres no chart for 300 but at 250 the drop is 22". what gives?

I like to have factual answers, if one gun is better then I want to know how and why. Thats how I find out which one to upgrade to.

As it looks now if I do upgrade I think I'll get that Savage 10ML, seems most agree on its performance and quality.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

My Omega barrel slug measures exactly .500. It is a bear to load most sabot bullet combinations but Powerbelts load very easy. I suspect there is something not right with the guy that says he can load sabots but not powerbelts that is just not how it works in all the rifles I have shot. If you decide to use the Savage with smokeless powder since you claim to be a beginner I would caution you to think long and hard before taking on the Savage. Smokeless powder is a lot less forgiving of slight errors than most of the standardmuzzleloading powders. If you are not a reloader with some experience I would say go easy and get some help.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

MLKeith, if i get it I was probably going to use pyrodex. A guy I know has worked with the loads and said he'd help me, but he is now using 777 in it. He says its just easier for him since he works so much.

I might just stay with mine, its whacked 11 deer in 4 years. It ain't the best, heck its probably the bottom line, but most of my shots are short. I was just wanting to got bear and antelope hunt someday and I know mine probably won't do the trick at longer ranges. I know I could use a rifle, but I just love the M/L , smoke and all.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

bowhunterjohn

Powerbelts go down my Omega just fine (although I do not shoot them with any regularity) - so now I really do not know what to tell you... other than, and this way out there so do not get upset, is trying to 54 cal PB down instead of 50's the 54's will actually start down... do you have a micrometer to measure the bullet?...

You really can not go to much by somebody else loadand performance unless you are there.... Sure I sight my guns in@ 100 but dependingon the gun and the bullet it might be a 1 1/2" or 2" high@ 100 so I can show little drop @ 150 - 200... but I know that...

Look@ the ballistic charts i just posted - those bullets are all calculated @ a 6"point blank range ( I can miss my point of aim by 3" up or3" down) really makes my bullets look a lot better...

A lot of people tape these numbers to thier stocks so than can range and animal and then know where to aim...

That is really tuff because on a forum like this everyone has teir ersonal biases - the only way you could get the perfect answer is have an independent non-interested party test them for you. My personal biases a way distorted - I still think my older Remington 700ML's are actually the best inline I have in most cases yet i really do like the Omega and the White is outa-site, the A&H is a work horse and the firebolt I do not even get around to anymore.

Take your best information and go handle the gun see what it feels like then ask some pointed questions....

I know absolutely nothing a bows, but I can not impagine that they all feel the same and that they would all give me a feeling of confidence... I do not know...

I like Ford pick-ups - you might like Chevy's ?????

mike

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

No, I"m Ford man LOL

Thanks for the advise.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

Some are and some aren't. TC's barrel tolerances have beenfairly largein the past. I don't know if they have done anything to improve consistency or not. The .45 Encore I have left is a very tight .450 while a blue one I sold was just over .451. My G2 .45 barrel is also just over .451. The .45 Encore barrelremaining was a replacement for a poorly done 1:20 twist SS barrel that wasprobably .452.

Seems to me (based only on my own limited experience) that TC's blued barrels tendnot only to bemore consistent dimensionally but are/have been better barrels generally when compared to their SS offerings.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

SABOTLOADER.... I shoot my bows more than I shoot myML's. Bows from different companys do NOT feel the same. I have 2 new bows from different campanys and they are no where close to feeling the same. Just like guns fellow archers change grips add weights to customize the bow to make it fit them. Really thats what makes all this fun. When I get to where it is not I will hang them up.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: bowhunterjohn

MLKeith, if i get it I was probably going to use pyrodex. A guy I know has worked with the loads and said he'd help me, but he is now using 777 in it. He says its just easier for him since he works so much.

I think if you are not intending to shoot smokeless there are a lot better choices for a long range rifle other than the Savage. Not knocking the Savage in fact I have a couple of Savage rifles but not the Muzzleloader. The breechplug design is for smokeless and somewhat more difficult to clean with powders other than smokeless. Knight long range hunter, Omega, Encore, White Ultra Mag all are capable of long range shooting if you are willing to spend the time with them. The Omega teamed with the new Nikon BDC scope is quite capable of 200 yard shots.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

bowhunterjohn,

Go here http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.htmlplay with it for a while. Just keep putting in more velocity until you get his trajectory. You will soon discover that your trajectory is "REAL WORLD" and his trajectory is "FANTASY". He is simply mistaken.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

ORIGINAL: bowhunterjohn

I mean I get a drop of 4" or so from 100 to 150, then 16 to 200 yards. This guy tells me he's sighted in for 100 but has only 4" of drop at 200 yards? and 14 at 300 yards?


I had to sight my winchester 7" high at 100 yards to be dead on at 200 yards with 120gn RS and 295 powerbelt. But 200 yards to way to freakin far with open sights.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

I really do know what their tolorance is taking the 50 cal which is what we see the most of all the ones I have had reason to check have been between .500 and .501 I consider that as in the proper range for a 50 cal. the one thing many people have had to deal with in the last few years that I think is uncalled for is burrs on the edge of the rifling , not to hard to deal with if you know how but uncalled for. Lee

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

Thats the same impression I had about the Sidekick. It took around 300 rounds of conicals to smooth her out.

RE: let me ask this, is it true that T/C barrels are slightly undersized?
 

I haven't measured mine but I can tell it's a bit tighter than others. It loads nice though. I have no complaints.