Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

I have access to Swiss black powder or the Go-ex black powder, along with the substitute powders. The black powder is available for just a short drive from where I live, so shipping will not be a problem. I have picked up a few books on Muzzle-loading and I am still confused as to which one will be the best way to go as a hunting powder. I do live in MN so we do get some wide temperature varition sometimes during the day. If I am understanding this correctly the BP is more susceptible to moisture and condensation when compared to the substitutes. It also sounds like the BP is a more consistent type of powder for shooting at least at the range. My friend has been telling me that the blackpowder is really a mess when cleaning up afterwords. Is the black powder that messy as to avoid it because of the mess? He also has never tried the Swiss but he does use the American Pioneer it is the actual black powder (I think that was the brand) in some of his guns. Knowing that the access to theactual black powderwill not be a problem for myself. WouldI be smartest to start experimenting with the axctual BP or the substitute powders? With the mild Winter we might be able to get out to the range very soon. I just want tofigure out what will be bestfor next years deer season?

Will the BP be much more corrosive over the substitute powders? From what it sounds like there are advantages to both choices. I guess that I need guidance as to which one will be best to start with.

Mike

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

For me, Black Powder and Pyrodex are the same as far as mess. In terms of least fouling in the barrel I'd say Pyro P, Pyro RS, 3f BP, 2f BP. I'll be trying 777 but I haven't used it. APP burns cleaner than Pyro and BP but I've wasn't as satisfied with its performance as Pyro and BP.

So ulitmately it will all depend on what you value in powder and how you judge cleanliness in powder, how much you value reloading without swabbing, etc. . . kinda gets complicated I know. But there is no easy answer.

I would say this. You will end up trying them all. I've almost gone full circle (not tried 777) but I am still totally enamored with real black powder and the consistent results it provides. I don't find it terrible to clean up after. I now want to buy a case of it but will need to burn up the all the APP, RS, and Pyro P, and get low in Goex, otherwise, my wife is going to kill me. :D

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

Thanks Phil,
If I was to go ahead with strictly black powder. Is it worth the extra cost of the Swiss over the Go-ex to make up for the substantial difference in price per can?When I go and pick it up I have to drive maybe 60 miles so I plan on going with 3-5cans. Also which of the powder types will work best of the (textures)? Would it be bad to pick up say 5 cans at once or make my trips more often for fresh powder?

Thanks,
Mike

I will be finally picking up my gun next week and if the weather holds I hope to get some range time:)

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

I've not used Swiss. I've heard alot of great things about it though. I've been using Goex since 1976. What I am very interested in trying is KIK powder. Some here have called it the poor man's swiss. It is supposed tobe more like Swiss than Goex but is actually cheaper than Goex. My favorite is 3f, the fouling seems to be finer and less of it. I never use more than 90 grains of 3f. If you think you might use 100-120 grain loads, be sure to pick up some 2f also.

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

Thanks again,
Thisshop only specializes in I believe traditional style muzzle-loaders. So unless they would go out of business, I should not ever have to worry about the availability factor. From when I have been on their website they only carry the Swiss and Go-ex. I will have to watch and see if they might start carrying that other brand though. As far as storing the actual black powders is there any concern with picking up like 5 cans at once or should I just go withsay 2 cans? If going with a large quantity is not advisable, that would be no problem. I am always looking for any excuse to get the bike out.

One other question, on the post below on storing powders. What does a person do if they really don't have a cool place to store powder. What would be considered a cool temperture, is probably more of what I would need to know. We sold our home a couple of years ago and so we are now living in an apartment. Thus I no longer would have a basement with cool temps. Would storing it in a refrigerator cause condensation? Would it be best to just store the powder in a closet in it's original container? I would hate to have my Wife get the powder into our chili or something!

Mike

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

HD Road King - you did not mention what kind of rifle you are going to be shooting. As for Black powder VS substitute powders.. Well of course the black powder is going to be more of a mess. You are shooting a true powder. Understand, it still cleans up with simple soap and water, it just might take a little longer then the other powders.

If your hunting in an area where temperatures and moisture variations might be a factor, by all means use Black Powder. Black Powder has the lowest ignition point. That means it is the easiest to makefire off... Black Powder also resists moisture better then most substitute powders When you read the marking FFg that FF means the grade. The g = graphite which is coated over the powder granules to help them repel moisture. Believe me, when you hunt with a flintlock, all you would ever use is black powder. Why, it resist moisture and it goes off easiest of all powders. Well as true as this is for a flintlock, it also holds true for all other styles of rifles.

I shoot black powder in all my rifles, flintlocks, smooth bores, traditional rifles, and inline rifles. I think it works the best of all powders on the market for 90% of the projectiles I encounter. There are some rifles of course that I own that shoot better with a different powder, but for the most part, any rifle will shoot black powder.

The difference in black powders is because of the kind of wood used to make the charcoal to produce the powder. Swiss powder is a little more expensive because is is a very clean black powder. When you shoot it, the amount of fowling will amaze you. There is very little compared to other black powders. Also Swiss is at least 15% stronger then Goex. When I shoot Swiss I always cut back my loads. Swiss also comes in 1.5 ffg 2ffg and 3ffg grades. All of them will shoot excellent. In my inline rifles I like the 3f Swiss and Goex. The 3f KIK is another good powder and really strong.

Goex is a great powder. If you like to shoot, I would strongly urge you to get a pound of 2f & 3f and try them in your rifles. They work really good. Granted it might take you five more minutes worth of time to clean the rifle, and you might have to swab the barrel between shots (maybe not..) but you'll never have a hard crud ring, and if you like BOOM! and smoke, this is the powder for you. Also if you shoot 100 grains of Pyrodex RS then shoot 100 grains of Goex 3f. The speed of the ignition is amazing.

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

I think it would take a fire to set off that BP. It is almost impossible, if you keep it in the original containers, for them to ignite spontaneously or by static electric discharge.If thetemperature reachs the ignition point, it goes. It far safer than some make it out to be. A fire will set it off though. But again my sense is this, it isn'tgoing to start the fire, though it may explode if you have a fire.

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

I store my black powder in their original containers at all times and transfer them to horns for range work. They are then kept in a cardboard box (that the case of powder I buy comes in) and that box with lid on, is stored in a cool dry place. No need to put it in the refrigerator. If you can set that stuff on a shooting bench with 100º temps outside, to shoot on the range, there is little danger of it just blowing up stored in a box in the house or garage or where every you store it.

While Black Powder is a true explosive, it is not as dangerous as people make it out to be. Granted you keep sparks away from it and direct heat, but I do the same with any of the substitute powders. Common sense goes a long way... I do not really worry about it. Athough its a good idea to keep all powders, no matter what make, stored in the same area. If a fire should start, be sure and advise fired department and emergency personal of their location and amounts.

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

Thanks Dave,
I will be finally picking up my first muzzle-loader the Friday following X-mas, I can't wait to finally get it home. The gun is a Knight Master Hunter .50. As long as this extremely unusual Winter continues I might be able to get out to the range with it sooner than planned. I live up in Minnesota so my conditions are probably very similar to yours. We do deal with really wide temperature ranges throughout the daytime hours. I guess the actual black powder sounds like a great powder for my personal use. Thanks for clarifying the grades of powder, for some reason my thought was that those numbers meant the size of the granules. I had not realized that it meant the composition of the powders. I don't mind the extra clean-up project, sounds like a great 2 beer project.Will the fouling shot still be advisable with type of powder? I have been reading a few books on muzzle-loading but the explanations of the different powder types were kind of complicated too understand. I think that I am going to like the big cloud idea also, might be interesting having to wait and see if I actually hit the deer.;)

Mike

RE: Swiss Black Powder or BlackPowder substitute??
 

A Knight Master Hunter... WOW!! what a rifle. Great choice of gun without a doubt. You really should get some pellets for that rifle to try. The rifle is kind of made to shoot pellets. Although the black powder will be fine in there. Also some Barnes or Knight Red Hots. I think you're going to really like that rifle and that will be a great long range rifle... keep me posted how it shoots..