Breach Plug Removal...
 

I removed the breach plug for a general cleaning and consequently was wondering if there is a tried and true method to verifying that the plugis in its original position?The gun I am cleaning is a Knight Wolverine .50 andany info is appreciated.

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

(The way I do it) The breech plug should be moved all the way to the forward position in the Wolverine and then backed off about 1/4 turn. This way after shooting the plug comes out nice and easy. Also note, mine is a #11 cap system. So I have the breech plug and then a nipple that screws into the breech plug.

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Yep, keep turning it until it stops - then turn one-quarter revolution counter-clockwise & leave it alone. It will never loosen from that point - but it sure makes it easier to remove when using hot primers and hot powders for lengthy range spells. Walmart sells the tube of Slick 50 One Grease in their automotive department. I'm about to try it because CVA changed their ML grease formula recently& it's not as easy to work with anymore. I'll know more about how wellthe Slick 50works in another week or-so. But according to users here, it'svery heat resistant, costeffective -- plus multi-purpose use.

Take that breechplug underneath your truck with you.:) Shoot three shots of grease into yourtruck ball joints - one shotonto the threads of your ML breechplug.:D

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Triple Se7en I see you noticed that "new and improved" forumla for the CVA as well. I am not impressed with it, the stuff stains about anything it comes in contact with and you have to take a bore solvent to remove the stain, it's watery, and I don't like it. I will be changing as well once this tube runs out...

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

I've never heard about loosening the breach plug 1/4 turn once it's completely tightened. It would've come in handy this weekend when I shot my first muzzleloader (Winchester x150 and I'm hooked). I'll be sure to loosen it before I shoot again. It took me a bit to get it loose.
-- B

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Branson - if you're on the target range, every ten shots or so, reach in there and twist that breech plug back and fourth a little. No need to remove it, just twist it back and fourth. You will find that at the end of the day the plug will turn right out with little problem... The same for when you're hunting. Don't crank that into the breech.

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Thanks, guys. I've reassembled the gun and will take it in the woods next week.

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Branson

It is not often that I disagree with cayugas but this is one of those cases. The breech plug is designed to the seal the front of the breech plug with the lip inside the barrel at the end of the BP threads. If you obtain a seal here you do not have to worry about blow back getting back into the threads of you breech plug or the subsequent gas cutting that will occur over time.

I run my breech plug in till it stops then I snug it up against the barrel flange to squeeze (not to tight to cut the tape)the teflon tape - I do not use any grease at all. Since I started this procedure I have never had any type stuck brech plugs and I get no blow coming back into the threads. Learning how to seal a BP is important and I believe it is somewhat of a safety factor as we are now hearing about more Omega/Encore flash channels eroding away for gas cutting.






Here is an example of a breech plug done the the way I described...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/sabotloader/BreechPlug.jpg

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

I have tried your system Sabotloader and have had no luck with it. I'm glad though it works for you. On my Knight Disc, I ended up in the shop with the barrel in a vice and me trying to tap the breech plug out real careful. One my CVA Staghorn the fit is so tight, that tape makes it feel like it is cross threading. Also I do tape the plug on the White and the Black Diamond XRand then still grease it, but when I take the plug out, the tape is usually totally destroyed....

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

cayugad

I am really sorry about your experiance with the Knight and I really do not understand how it would happen if the seal was achieved and not broken until you took the plug out. One of the things that I have done was to check the mating surfaces of the breech plug to the barrel flange by blackening the lip on the BP screwing it into the barrel then take it out ckeck the blackening - it should show contact all the way around the plug.

Often installing the plug will feel like you are cross-threading, when that happens I polish the BP plug threads and and the threads in the barrel with JB's - all thread cutting machines leave very sharp threads and burrs. After polishing you normally get a betterand smoother fit.

The thickness of the tape is important issue to solve - the Remingtons all use Pink tape. The A&H uses pink tape but you must turn the plug in your fingers and work the tape down into the threads before putting it in the barrel. The Omega requires one wrap of white tape and the threads of the BP and the barrel must be clean. The White uses pink and does not require any pressure on the tape before inserting it. I have never found a gun I could use the yellow tape on yet.

It sounds somewhat complicated, but I firmly believe in stopping blowback before it gets to the threads of the BP. After reading the documentation on Toby's accident whether he caused it on purpose or not... Gas cutting is/can be a problem. Most of the gas cutting from blowback you and I will never see. Doc White is aware of the problem and hardens his BP's to such a Rockwell number just to insure cutting is held to a minumum.

And when you get back to the basic premise each ML is different I guess you need to do what works for you.

Apparently we have both solved the BP problem each of us doing our own thing, I just have a hard time with the concept of loosing on purpose the breech plug - I know a lot of people do it but my mechanical background just will not let me do it...

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Some time ago, I made the mistake of removing my BP (sidekick) in the field and screwing it back where a little piece of foulingwas lodged between the BP end and the barrel. When I cleaned the rifle that evening, I noticed erosion had begun at a point on the BP, maybe 1/32" wide.

Since then I haveapplied teflon tape to only the first few threads and the end the BP (where it seals). I still continue and always have used permatex brand anti-sieze compound (alot like never-sieze). So I've been doing kind of a hybrid of the two methods. The erosion first occurred around shot 300. Now around shot 640 I notice that the erosion continues although its not terribly worse, but it is indeed worse than the first time I noticed it so I know I'm not sealing gases, though I am satisfied that I am slowing them down.

I have mixed emotions about the comments already made and I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with both practices. Like sabotloader, I feel a good seal will prevent BP siezures and make for longer barrel life. But one thing is clear to me, my BP is very poorly designed for sealing gases (and I'm not entirely convinced that a piece of foulingwasthe initiatingcause of the erosion on the end of my BP), and IMHO any BP which is required to obtain its seal from butting flat to flat surfaces is fighing a losingbattle with regard toa perfect seal.

In any event, I wonder whether there would be any signs of erosion if I had simply backed it off a 1/4 turn. Granted gases will get round the BP, but maybe they won't cut like they do when they go through a very small opening (like the erosion channel on the end my BP). Cayugad, are there any signs of erosion on your BP?

Whether the antisieze compound is best for the job is open to debate, but it has served me well. Fact is, I use itbecause I just happen to have some around.

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Pglasgow

Here is what my mechanical mind is saying to me... the strength of threads and a nut are if there is no movement back and forth on the threads - if there is movement there is a greater chance of breakage. So if you back off a 1/4 turn insert your cap or primer drop the hammer on the load the bolt drives the plug forward some measuralbe distance - that distance would be detirmined by the tightness of the plug in the threads - any drive it forward and then immediated drive it back with a high pressure load going off. This back and forth movement just doesn't make sense. The movement forward is no big deal but the slam back will add up. How good are your threads??? Loosen a lug nut a little bit what is going to happen or why are the BP on sidelocks tightened to such a standard that TC will not even allow you as a consumer to work on the breechplug - they will not even sell you one.

I know - I'm fretting something that doesn't need to be fretted but I have seen way to many accidents happen because of loose bolts, especially in the logging busines.

OK I'll shut up now... sorry

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Well we have all been at it for a while and the thing that suprises me is so many different ways work well for the persoon using them.
I use layout bluing to get the most perfect fit I can,then nickle anti-sieze to seal the threads and snug the plug down but not hard enough to scarf up the mating surfaces; I never worry about it till I get home to clean the gun.
But as Cayuqad says it is a messy processs if you get it on anything. Lee

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

No sign of erosion, none what so ever in all five of my inlines.

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

sabotloader,

My mechanical mind tells me the same thing and as I said, I have mixed feelings about it.

Regarding accidents, I am sure that the manufactures will tell one that the sealing surfacesare to be mated. But maybe this particular subject needs to be viewed from a context, the context being the loadsthemselves. Personally I could not bring myself to drop the hammer on 120 grains or 3 pellets if the plug were not snug. But maybe the risk with 70 to 100 grains is lessened considerably. If there was considerable risks with the loads that Dave is using, the signs would begin showing and inspection of the plug would reveal them.

Up to now I've always installed the plug with sealing surfaces mated, and probably will continue to do so because I have no trouble removing my BP unless blowback (from the ignition hole) crusts in the BP from the outside (not through the threads), and plain old soapy water does the trick if I let that happen.

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Woohoo!! Another x-150 owner! Now i dont feel so naked here! lol. Branson, how is it shooting for you? i bought mine almost 4 years ago with the stainless barrel and camo stock. I love mine.

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Frontier,
I've had it for three weeks and I've been so busy with school I've only shot it twice. I got a good deal on it. It came with the .45 cal stainless barrel on it and the .50 cal barrel too. The stock is camo. It feels great to shoot and I think I'm hooked on BP already. It was dead on at 40 yards with the fiber-optic sights it came with (they're not as bright as I'd like though). The plan is to work with it like crazy for a bit during winter break and hunt the late BP season. Next year, the .50 cal barrel will be on it with a nice scope. The gun just feels perfect, and with my 100 grains of 777 and the 195 grain powerbelts I'm pleased (although I'll play with heavier bullets before I make any great claims about accuracy).
-- B

RE: Breach Plug Removal...
 

Sounds like you're off to a good start. I know exactly what you mean about the sights. I changed mine out with a cheapie $20 set but now im looking into buying the tru glow sights from cabelas for $40. Hopefully i'll get to go late season elk hunting and i'll take my x-150. My 30-30 just isnt any fun.