LaneNebraska

When I was using a 50cal, I always used 100grains of APP and the 295 PB's, with the longest shot at 60 yards. All deer dropped within 10-15 yards. Bullets all fraged. I say that is very acceptable results--dead deer. The bullets do exactly what they are intended for, expend all thier energy in the animal and knock the crap out of them


In fairness, the plat's seem to have a thin coating over the standard copper jacket. They seem a little stiffer/harder to squash in my bench vise, side by side with the 275grainers.

I'm going to use the Platinum 45cal 300grain for the next/last deer I shoot this season, Lord willing
I'll try to recover that bullet and post pics here.


I'll stick with the 70grains of powder, unless this weeks range/chrony results tell me different.

ahankster

Lane,
I understand where you are coming from, all your deer have dropped pretty close by and that is great. But, had they not dropped close by, you probably would have had a very difficult time tracking them. I consider myself a pretty good shot, you probably are too, but things happen and deer move, what if you hit it in the liver and only clip a lung or worse, hit it further back? That sucker could run for a loooong way. Heaven forbid that a big bruiser buck of a lifetime walk out and you pop it only to have him run off with little or no blood trail. That one happened to me last year, a quartering towards shot on a 130 class deer that went through the liver and both lungs. Deer went over 250 yards in some very thick stuff before I found it. At first, no blood trail at all and gradually it became a flood. I am certain that without two holes, I would have either never found the deer or would have found it a day or two later after the yotes and buzzards had found it.

In my job we concentrate allot of energy in minimizing factors that could cause bad things to happen. Once a factor/situation is identified (and can't be eliminated), then we put in place things so that if that "bad" thing happens we are either protected or have a way to deal with it. I look at hunting the same way. It is a risk/benefit kind of thing. I know that most of the deer I or my kids shoot will drop within 40 or 50 yards, but some of them can do some amazing things. When they do that "amazing" thing, like a heart shot deer runs 250 yards (I've seen that too) I want to make sure that I have something in place to deal with that situation. That thing for me is a hole in and a hole out so I can be as reasonably sure as possible of a good blood trail.
I am blessed right now to be in a great situation where I can hunt pretty much every day, between myself and my two sons, we kill 8 to 10 deer a year (could be waaay more). I usually get one or two with a bow, the boys occaisionally get one with their 20 gauge, but all the rest are with M/Lers. I know I am not an expert, nor have I seen everything that can happen with a M/Ler or deer, but when you shoot that many deer a year and hunt almost every day, help people track and clean deer almost every day, you see what works and what doesn't.

As far as the PBs go, I have said before and have no problem saying again that there is an easy fix to make them have better terminal peformance. The first step would be to make that cavern they call a hollow point smaller or no hollow point at all. It would give it a better ballistics and lessent the tendancy to frag. The second thing would be to thicken the copper wash and make it a real plating, especially around the lower half of the bullet. The third thing would be to harden the lead a bit. The mix they use is extremely soft. Maybe what they should do is have a new product called the "high velocity power belt". Employ these improvements and advertise it as such.

We still have about 6 weeks of hunting left here and the best is still yet to come.
Good luck
Hank

Hank

Hunter John

Hank - Good suggestions for improving the PB. However, as others have pointed out to me, one of the reasons for the PB having such soft lead is to improve accuracy. If you've ever seen a picture of a recovered lead PB, you'll notice the disting rifling marks on it. The rifling marks are usually very well defined and deep...this it where the PB gets its accuracy from. Others have speculated that the lead is so soft that upon firing, the lead actually operates along the plastic base.

If CVA was to increase the hardness of the PB lead, although improving the terminal performance of the bullet and lessening the chance of complete bullet dissentigration upon impact , my guess is that they lose their accuracy a bit.

I do like your idea about shrinking the size of the hollow point and putting some real copper plating on it and perhaps bonding it to the lead to prevent separation. The copper "paint" they use today is a joke IMO.

Anyway, very good ideas are blossoming here (and some real educational pics Lane)...someone should send a copy of this thread to CVA.

Pglasgow

Hunter John,

I think you are right on. So there is conundrum. One could drive them hard but the range would probably be reduced due to accuracy issues. Not to mention the fact that the bullet's would suffer for the purpose of low velocity impact, in fact, to use harder lead with 348 thru 444 PBs would ruin them in my way of thinking. I thinkHank is right about one thing though. Forthe 295 and lighter (.50 cal)bullets. Just get rid of the hollowpoint and the green aerotip and make a solid tip possessing the ogive of the aerotip. A person should be able to push themup to 1800 fps at the muzzlewithout major issues.

Chris W.

I had a very different experience. Popped a doe in the shoulder at10 yards with a 410 gr. flat point this seasonand it destroyed the shoulder and made a silver dollar size hole on the way out the other side. With the hog I shot this year at 40 yards, the bullet entered at the base of the neck, destroyed the spine, angled through the skull and exited a little forward of the off side ear with a hole, again, the size of a silver dollar. I never could get a powerbelt to perform like that. Plus, I pay around $8 for 20 of the GP bullets vs. $14-$17 for 15 powerbelts. I'll keep shooting GP conicals for a while.

Roskoe

I have had similar thoughts for years - in fact, I talked to the CVA folks about this at the 2005 SHOT show. My suggestion was to make a magnum powerbelt - that had a little antimony in the lead, and would make that "window" where the powerbelts obturate into the rifling a little higher on the velocity scale. They didn't seem too interested, citing their current bullet was the most popular on the planet.

But the new Platinum Powerbelt appears to be an effort to satisfy those exact same concerns . . . .

sproulman

to each your own thinking,if you use hollow point bullet YOU MUST PUT IT BEHIND SHOULDER OR IN NECK..

if you are type of hunter. like i hunt in,in thick laural of pa.possible running shot,brush in front of deer,hard to get side behind shoulder shot ,other hunters close on publicland, i would NOT use powerbelt unless you hunt like i do..

i only shoot at clear shot behind shoulder or in neck..if buck is any other direction,he walks..

this is why the MAXI-BALL 370 is best all around bullet for the .50 cal..you can load it hot or cold..it WILL ppunch hole thru a buck..it will break shoulder and keep on going..it will work on buck that is not in best postion for shot.

so, you may say, SPROUL, why dont you use it then?i dont like BORE BUTTER IN WINTER and i like to shoot my flintlock as light a charge as i can and still feel the bullet will open up..i only shoot behind shoulder or neck..

powerbelt does that at 80 grs,2f geox,bore button,295 pb,rmc v-peep,NO KICK..

sproulman

YOU ARE RIGHT ON..in .50 cal, the 348 pb is most likely the better bullet to use for buck,not the 295..i only use the 295 because it was real accurate,touched holes,i load DOWN in my flintlock and it opens upand i only take side or neck shot and NO KICK..

in fact, i read test somewhere that said in the .50 cal in-lines which i have no experience,they said NEVER use a powerbelt under 348 on deer..

if i was using inline, i would use the heaviest powerbelt made for it or go to maxi-ball or those other bullets that are mentioned on here..

no way i would use hollow point bullet pushed at high velocity..

ol eagle eyes

Not that I am a fan of the XTP but I did dig up the hollow point 185gr XTP that I shot at a doe with 150gr of pyrodex. I must say I am impressed that it held together nicely. This was my first year with a ML when I thought, wow, I can drop in 3 pellets of pyrodex and a light bullet and it will be just like a riffle! That mentality didnt make it through to the next season, but I must admit I had no problems with the combo, and took 2 deer with this setup my first year.




Last pic shows the Platinum PowerBelt on the right, which makes a bit bigger diameter with the extra 85gr of weight.

sproulman

range you shoot a deer at has a lot also to do with bullet that is left..bullet at 50 yds is going to look a lot different than one that hits deer at 150 yds..

i am surprised you found anything left of that hollow point..

do you feel the XTP is made harder than the powerbelt..

looking at pictures ,it looks like XTP metal looks more hard..