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240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
I have been using T/C Mag sabots with 240 grain XTP's. I have shot 5 deer with that bullet, at ranges from 35 to 95 yards. All have been chest shots and not one gave any sign of being hit. Every deer traveled at least 80 yards after the shot. All were recovered, and none of the bullets penetrated the animal and blood trail (if any) was very sparce, and close to the place the deer was found.
Thefifthdeer, an average 8 point buck, was shot the other day. Shot at about 35 yards, he gave absolutely no sign of being hit. There was a small amount of hair at theplace he was shot and not a drop of blood could be found except right at the place he was found--about 125 yards (and 2 hours)away in one of the thickest, most briar infested places onmy farm. Shot was broadside behind the right shoulder, the bullet stopped under the hide on the left side. Shot a a downward angle, the chest cavity was filled with blood, but none seemed to leak out. The bullet mushroom was very pretty (as were all the others) , but I would like to find a bullet that would--at least onbroadside shots--penetrate the animal. Load was 100 grains Pyrodex pellets. Would a 300 grain XTP give better penetration? If not, what would you recommend? |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
Very interesting results with the 240 grain XTP. Others claim such excellent stopping power and even blood trails. I guess it all boils down to where the deer was hit. But you do seem to have lots of field experience with the projectile.
I've never shot deer with XTP's yet. I would think you would have more energy with the 300 grains and possibly better penetration otherwise I think I might look at a shockwaves type bullet and see if that does not work better. It's obvious that your a skilled tracker to be able to find deer leaving no blood trail, into thickets. I hunt thickets and know what you're dealing with... Good job on the deer. |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
i would think a heavier slower bullet would expand better like the 300 gr. xtp-s. i would look at your charge too.maybe too hot? how much powder are you using? i remember the days of using 100 grains. an old timer told me to drop down to 70 for starters and my groups did so much better. i wonder if you can buy ballistics gel. it would be neet to test your personal loads for expansion at different ranges. i have seen many critters hit with a well placed shot and not bleed. they never went far but there aint nothing like a good blood trail.
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
Keyshunter
Use the search feature to review several of the threads recently discussing this topic I hunt some of the thickest cover imaginable. I shot three deer last season with my muzzleloader and I lost one of them and nearly lost another after they ran off from good shots at distances of 100 yards or less. I was using the Hornady SST 250 gr., .452 bullet last year in MPH12 sabots and 100 gr of 777 pellets. Very little blood, small exit wound or none at all. Those bullets shot paper great but didn't work for me in this jungle I hunt in. I need rapid expansion and deep, dependable penetration. To get that one has to sacrifice something, and for me that is range. I am usingthe Speer Gold Dot 300 gr. bullet this year and I am impressed with its performance in the one and only deer I've shot so far. Take a look at the other thread and pictures of the recovered bullet. By using this heaver, hollow-point bullet I am giving up some range over the 250gr SST, and I am OK with that. The conditions at my place rarely allow a shot any greater than 100 yards anyway. These are bonded bullets and won't seperate or come apart. The are reasonably priced too, about $15.00 for a box of 50 from Midway. Feel free PM me or email if you have any additional questions. Mouthcaller ([email protected]) |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
I have only shot one deer but I shot it with a 300 grain XTP 100 grains of pyrodex at about 30 yards. Thebullet went in the left shoulder exited behind the right and the deer went about 4 feetitthere was blood and tissue spattering for a good 10 feet behind the deer and Is visible on the log if you look closely at the photo .
I picked this bullet in case I ran into a bear and decided to take it! On field dressing the deer the left shoulder blade was broken and the lungs were like rasberry jamexit wound about the size of a half dollarif I were to use a saboted bullet for any game in North America This is the only one I would use  |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
Cayugad,
Thanks for the compliment. In my case, however, it's probably more perseverence than skill. But, I have tracked quite a few wounded deer (both my own, and others) over the past 52 years, and a little blood can be very helpful.I do remember saying aloud while I was crawling through the briars tracking this last buck, "I'm getting too old for this sh..err stuff." |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
 My first big'n with BP BuddyBo shoots the same rifle and sabots as I do! |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
keyhunter - been there, done that, and have the T-shirt to prove it.:D:D:D
A few years back I shot a monsterdoe with a roundball and she ran 70 yards into some of the most nasty stuff ever. A cedar/tag alder marsh is not a nice place to travel. It was even hard to walk & crawl through. She managed to cross the creek of coursefor me and then flopped over dead.Field dressed she went 138 pounds. After I pulled, dragged, carried, fell in the creek with, and threatened to leaveher, I was finally ableto get her out of that thicket, It was one of the first times I realised just how old I really was. |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
ORIGINAL: keyshunter Cayugad, Thanks for the compliment. In my case, however, it's probably more perseverence than skill. But, I have tracked quite a few wounded deer (both my own, and others) over the past 52 years, and a little blood can be very helpful.I do remember saying aloud while I was crawling through the briars tracking this last buck, "I'm getting too old for this sh..err stuff." :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:DI'm going on 67.......Ouch! |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
ORIGINAL: keyshunter I have been using T/C Mag sabots with 240 grain XTP's. I have shot 5 deer with that bullet, at ranges from 35 to 95 yards. All have been chest shots and not one gave any sign of being hit. Every deer traveled at least 80 yards after the shot. All were recovered, and none of the bullets penetrated the animal and blood trail (if any) was very sparce, and close to the place the deer was found. Thefifthdeer, an average 8 point buck, was shot the other day. Shot at about 35 yards, he gave absolutely no sign of being hit. There was a small amount of hair at theplace he was shot and not a drop of blood could be found except right at the place he was found--about 125 yards (and 2 hours)away in one of the thickest, most briar infested places onmy farm. Shot was broadside behind the right shoulder, the bullet stopped under the hide on the left side. Shot a a downward angle, the chest cavity was filled with blood, but none seemed to leak out. The bullet mushroom was very pretty (as were all the others) , but I would like to find a bullet that would--at least onbroadside shots--penetrate the animal. Load was 100 grains Pyrodex pellets. Would a 300 grain XTP give better penetration? If not, what would you recommend? When I aim, I draw an imaginary line across the body and stay away form the half-way point& higher. I find that little crease next to the upper part of the front leg - follow it up a couple of inches & that's where I squeeze my trigger to. Betterblood trails below the half-way point- often times a double-lunger and none or very little bone cracking going on - depending on the angle which the deer standing. Yes, in this sport, bigger is mostly better. But best of all, bigger is usually the same price too. I reach for the biggest, baddest bullet that's made in the design I want. For shots under 175 yards, a lead bullet is all you need & most of those are flat nose or hollow points that expand well - leaving good blood trails. Had that deer you shot been hit by one of my Buffalo S.S.B's in 375 or 435 grain, you would of been alot more impressed. That's my opinion (everything I mentioned)& I'm sticking to it. ;) |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
[quote]ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en
ORIGINAL: keyshunter ORIGINAL: keyshunter Thefifthdeer, an average 8 point buck, was shot the other day. Shot at The bullet mushroom was very pretty (as were all the others) , but I would like to find a bullet that would--at least onbroadside shots--penetrate the animal. Load was 100 grains Pyrodex pellets. Would a 300 grain XTP give better penetration? If not, what would you recommend? When I aim, I draw an imaginary line across the body and stay away form the half-way point& higher. I find that little crease next to the upper part of the front leg - follow it up a couple of inches & that's where I squeeze my trigger to. Betterblood trails below the half-way point- often times a double-lunger and none or very little bone cracking going on - depending on the angle which the deer standing. Yes, in this sport, bigger is mostly better. But best of all, bigger is usually the same price too. I reach for the biggest, baddest bullet that's made in the design I want. For shots under 175 yards, a lead bullet is all you need & most of those are flat nose or hollow points that expand well - leaving good blood trails. Had that deer you shot been hit by one of my Buffalo S.S.B's in 375 or 435 grain, you would of been alot more impressed. That's my opinion (everything I mentioned)& I'm sticking to it. ;) Actually, I didmention in my original post "Load was 100 grains Pyrodex pellets" |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
Almost all my hits with 240gr XTPs have been pass-throughs; only two recovered. All three CheapShot deer were passthrus. My biggest problem is putting the bullet in the right place; once that is done, the deer dies.
300 can only be better. On paper it looks to be better, as ranges increase - and I can't see how a longer bullet would be bad. |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
keyshunter...Try the Barnes all copper 250 or 300 grain...I promise they will penetrate...they are kinda expensive, but they will give a complete pass through and good blood trails...
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
Could the problem be the design of bullet or the amount of powder? I shoot 230gr XTP in my System one hit just over the heart in the back edge of the shoulder they either drop on the spot or go less than 60 yds I am using 130ge as that is what shoots most accurate my 54 PRB with a 35.5 inch barrel usually drops them on the spot with the same hit with my Omega a 130 gr load and Shock wave put this years buck down in about 40 yds. I like to shoot out of a tree stand and wait for the right shoot with the tree stand over 20 ft high I get a low exit wound that has allways left a good blood trail. Lee
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
Ive kill several deer with a 240gr xtp and TC cheapshot 240grboth pushed by 110gr of RS pyrodex powder out of my bd XR all but one left good blood trailswithout an exit hole and only make it 60yd at most
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
Go with the 300 grain bullet. Sectional density will be greater, which will result in better penetration all other factors being equal. A longer bullet when compared to one of the same weight and composition will penetrate deeper due to its higher SD.
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
I have killed deer with both...choose the 300's and dont look back IMO. Anything gained at the muzzle speedwise will be gone before 100 yards. I had penetration probs with the 240's if any bone was encountered...not a prob for the 300's.
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
There are two 240 grain XTP bullets in .44 caliber. There is the 240 grain XTP thati use withexcellent results and there is the 240 grain XTP Magnum. Both have beensold in .50 caliber sabots. Every deer that I ever shot with the plain old XTP was a pass through. i never used the XTP Magnum on deer because of the excellent results with the older bullet. There are also two different 300 grain XTP bullets in .44 caliber.
The two rifles that i currently use shoot the 240 grain XTP and the 250 grainSST to the same zero. Then, to complicate matters further, Hornady and others sell.50 caliber sabots with the .45 caliber 240 grain XTP Magnum bullets.i never used these on deer. Lost an elk due to the failure of a PTX bullet to expand. This is the one with the small rounded plastic nose. The blood trail petered out after about 400 yards.Four of us looked for her for about five hours. Another hunter found her and took her out. Some day i am going to try all these bullets on packed wet newspapers and see what happens. Hope that this helps. |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
ORIGINAL: alsaqr There are two 240 grain XTP bullets in .44 caliber. There is the 240 grain XTP thati use withexcellent results and there is the 240 grain XTP Magnum. Both have beensold in .50 caliber sabots. Every deer that I ever shot with the plain old XTP was a pass through. i never used the XTP Magnum on deer because of the excellent results with the older bullet. There are also two different 300 grain XTP bullets in .44 caliber. The two rifles that i currently use shoot the 240 grain XTP and the 250 grainSST to the same zero. Then, to complicate matters further, Hornady and others sell.50 caliber sabots with the .45 caliber 240 grain XTP Magnum bullets.i never used these on deer. Lost an elk due to the failure of a PTX bullet to expand. This is the one with the small rounded plastic nose. The blood trail petered out after about 400 yards.Four of us looked for her for about five hours. Another hunter found her and took her out. Some day i am going to try all these bullets on packed wet newspapers and see what happens. Hope that this helps. These have the green sabot with them. Not the black. |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
There are two schools of thought on this subject,
#1 fast controled opening with an exact placement will drop the deer in his tracks[I usually go this route its been years since I had to do any tracking on a gun deer] #2 That a heavy bullet [270+] slowly opening will do the job[ and it will] and hopefully a nice exit hole to leave a blood trail and penatration from any angle through to the vitals. I personally prefer the the 250 Gold Dot and either 110gr 777 or 120 or 130 RS depending on what the gun likes. Now I am going into a highly contriversal area, the powder load, it has to be accurate but it also has to suit the bulletto much can open the bullet to fast which will reduce penatration and to little and it will also reduce penatration. The only bullets I use what I consider a mag load[over 130gr] with is the very heavy[ 325+] and the 200gr Shock Wave[ my extreme range bullet] it will hold together. Since you did not mention the powder load but did mention that you use mag bullets I though maybe you are loading heavy; either way I know that I used 240 gr bullets for several years and a number of deer I recoverd all of them but had similar problems to what you are experiancing. You could go to one of the very good very expensive bullets in a barnes or nosler but personally I think that they are to expensive as I like to shoot a lot and use my hunting load so I know exactly what it will do. The Gold Dot 250 with the right amount of powder is a terrific bang flop killer but you need to put it in the right place , right be hind the fore leg,Bad angles and shoulder shots I avoid with the 250. The 300 gr XTP or Gold Dot will punch through shoulder [and spoil a bunch of good meat] and thats likly the best chance for a bang flop with them put squarly into the ribcage in one side and out the other they will bring down even very large game but you will usually have to trail it down. Lee |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
I'll be using the high shoulder shot this year. I used the behind the shoulder shot last year and consequently had another hunter put their tag on the buck. Here's a little article about a study done in South Carolina. The study involved shot placement and how far deer ran. Out of a little over 400 deer the average distance ran for a heart hit is 39yds, lungs 50yds, guts 69yds, and shoulder 3yds. http://www.scilowcountry.org/cedar_knoll_deer_study.htm
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
If I were getting those results I would definitely go tothe heavier bullet, Just make sure you keep your accuracy with the 300 grainer.To me a blood trail is insurance. That is why I really like full sized conicals. If you haven't tried full sized flat nosed conicals they are very effective. The .460 gr. bullet I use punches through the deer as if it were a cardboard target. I've only shot two deerwith that bullet, but bothshots left an easy 40's yard red trail to a dead deer. One was a double rib behind the shoulder shot, and the other took out the shoulder on the opposite side.
C. Davis |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
My guns are flintlocks with 24" and 28" barrels so I have to use real black powder; My rifles are 1/28 twist and shoot the .452 250 and 300 grain xtp's really well. They shoot much better with Goex 2f than 3f so my velocity is only around 1500 fps. with 90-100 grain charges but they are very accurate.
Anyway; I have taken 1 deer so far with the rifle shooting 100 grains of Goex 2f and the .452 300 grainer at about 65-70 yards. The shot went thru ahead of the front shoulder and out behind the off shoulder. If I must brag; it was a perfect shot placement under the conditions. The deer went down faster than a New York parking ticket. There was not alot of bloodshot meat but the exit was about the size of a quarter and I want a bullet to exit. This one did and believe the 300 grainer to be a better choice if you want full penetration. I shot some Swiss powder yesterday in attempts to boost the velocity a little but it didn't group nearly as well as the Goex 2f so I am staying with it. Next I am going to try some 300 grain Speer Gold dots and if they group well they will be my load for this season. There really isn't that much difference in trajectory between the 250-300 grainers in my opinion; but I am only shooting out to 125 yards. |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
i have used the .430 240 grain XTP bullet since igot back into muzzleloading in2000.It has worked very well for me on deer; most have been bang flops. It has also killed many dozens of hogs for me; most of them were bang flops too. A fully grown hog is much harder to kill than a whitetail deer.My shots are picked very carefully and the bullet goes where it is supposed to. In my experience; sometimes they exit and sometimes they do not exit,neither matters to me.
If an exit hole is important to you, then use the .45 caliber 240 grain XTP Magnum bullet. A friend uses them and there is always an exit. |
RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
The .452, 300 grain XTP is ALL that I use. Never had a deer go farther than 20 yards. Always good blood, most drop on the spot. The Hornady sabot is a little tighter than the T/C version. I was very disappointed with the SST's performance, no blood, no expansion (even thru both shoulders). The XTP or Gold Dots would be your best bets. My best 3 shot group at 100 yards was a little over 3/4 inch.
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
Ridge Runner, Please dont tell the deer around here that. I have been getting bang flops every since I started using 250gr Gold Dots and 110777 or 120 RS and I shoot them 3 or 4 inches above the heart where the ganglion center and the arterys are all together and go through both lungs, I used to shoot them in the same place with the same result with my 54 hawken and a round ball. Lee
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RE: 240 GR. vs 300 GR, XTP
ORIGINAL: keyshunter I have been using T/C Mag sabots with 240 grain XTP's. I have shot 5 deer with that bullet, at ranges from 35 to 95 yards. All have been chest shots and not one gave any sign of being hit. Every deer traveled at least 80 yards after the shot. All were recovered, and none of the bullets penetrated the animal and blood trail (if any) was very sparce, and close to the place the deer was found. Thefifthdeer, an average 8 point buck, was shot the other day. Shot at about 35 yards, he gave absolutely no sign of being hit. There was a small amount of hair at theplace he was shot and not a drop of blood could be found except right at the place he was found--about 125 yards (and 2 hours)away in one of the thickest, most briar infested places onmy farm. Shot was broadside behind the right shoulder, the bullet stopped under the hide on the left side. Shot a a downward angle, the chest cavity was filled with blood, but none seemed to leak out. The bullet mushroom was very pretty (as were all the others) , but I would like to find a bullet that would--at least onbroadside shots--penetrate the animal. Load was 100 grains Pyrodex pellets. Would a 300 grain XTP give better penetration? If not, what would you recommend? |
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