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-   -   Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm??? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/164401-why-isnt-black-powder-considered-fire-arm.html)

atcfisherman 11-10-2006 03:36 PM
Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
Last month when I was at Bass pro shops, I noticed a guy buying a black powder rifle without a back ground check. I asked the salesman what's up with that and he said they are not considered a fire arm.Huh???????? Is this everywhere or what.

Then while I was at my deer lease the other day, I noticed a guy hunting with a black powder rifle and asked why he doen't just wait for BP season and hunt with a deer rifle. He said he has a conviction on his record from about 20 years ago and could not use a fire arm, but could use a BP. Nothing against this guy and he is even a very nice new christian man, but I am confused, which doesn't take much. Any thoughts??????

bigcountry 11-10-2006 03:43 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
How many crimes have you seen in the US with black powder rifles? That should answer your question in short order.

Triple Se7en 11-10-2006 03:43 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
Don't make any waves please. If enough folks find good-enough reasons to change that law with suggestions here, then that's bad news for ML purchasers. Just be thankful it's nota firearm& leave "well-enough" alone.

Sharp Shooter 11-10-2006 04:50 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
That is a good thing. If we ever get our firearms taken away we will still have muzzleloaders for protection!!!

Wolfhound76 11-10-2006 06:03 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
ORIGINAL: atcfisherman

Last month when I was at Bass pro shops, I noticed a guy buying a black powder rifle without a back ground check. I asked the salesman what's up with that and he said they are not considered a fire arm.Huh???????? Is this everywhere or what.

Then while I was at my deer lease the other day, I noticed a guy hunting with a black powder rifle and asked why he doen't just wait for BP season and hunt with a deer rifle. He said he has a conviction on his record from about 20 years ago and could not use a fire arm, but could use a BP. Nothing against this guy and he is even a very nice new christian man, but I am confused, which doesn't take much. Any thoughts??????
They are firearms. The BATF classifies them as antique firearms. Antique firearms are exempted from the federal background checks. Some states have further restrictions on them. My home state of Illinois, for example, requires the yellow form and background check with a 24 hour waiting period. Someone transfering a muzzleloader in state without first checking an ILFOID card commits a class 4 felony.

FrankS 11-10-2006 06:41 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
In the NJ both ML's, air rifles and even BB guns are considered firearms. You need a Firearms ID card and call to the State Police to purchase the Red Ryder Carbine Lever Action BB Gun or the Benelli Super Black Eagle. Don't even ask about hand guns.

cayugad 11-10-2006 06:44 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
I was going to say, this law varies from State to State. As it is, I am more then happy with the current way it works in Wisconsin.

alsaqr 11-10-2006 06:47 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
The felon who purchased a muzzleloader is asking for jail time. The mere possession of the powder or bullet in some states whould get him back into jail.

Some BP guns requireFBI insta-check. The T/C Encore can usehighpower rifle and shotgun barrels and requires the check.

atcfisherman 11-10-2006 07:20 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 

ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en

Don't make any waves please. If enough folks find good-enough reasons to change that law with suggestions here, then that's bad news for ML purchasers. Just be thankful it's not a firearm & leave "well-enough" alone.
I'm not trying to make any waves. Just didn't know after seeing that guy buy one without the check. I looked up on line what the Texas laws says and they are not considered a modern firearm but a antique firearm and thus does not require a back ground check. It also said that a felon can use a black powder rifle in Texas if it is not a rimfire and has to be something like a replica or something else that I didn't understand. Not sure since I know very little about them.

Also in Texas, a BB gun and pellet gun are not considered a fire arm since there is not explosion created to move the bullet.

Anyway, thanks for the info. Now I know why here in Texas anyone can go purchase a ML.

alsaqr 11-10-2006 07:27 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
Felons and B/P guns in Wyoming-Do not do it.

The link:

kgwn.tv/home/headlines/3247286

HighDesertWolf 11-11-2006 05:17 AM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
atcfisherman, just gotta ask you... do like filling out 4473 forms?? also do you like having a background check done everytime you buy a gun?? I personally dont... but we have to do it because some morons in washington somehow determined this actually reduces crime... honestly I feel its because they want to have record of where firearms are incase the morons in washington decide they dont want us to have guns anymore... one more question do you think you should have to fill out a 4473 form and have a background check for air guns??

atcfisherman 11-11-2006 09:00 AM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 

ORIGINAL: HighDesertWolf

atcfisherman, just gotta ask you... do like filling out 4473 forms?? also do you like having a background check done everytime you buy a gun?? I personally dont... but we have to do it because some morons in washington somehow determined this actually reduces crime... honestly I feel its because they want to have record of where firearms are incase the morons in washington decide they dont want us to have guns anymore... one more question do you think you should have to fill out a 4473 form and have a background check for air guns??
I just started this topic b/c I didn't know about the ML guns and felons. Nothing more or less! Do I like filling out forms, NO! and I personally think Washington should stay away from all hunting rifles b/c I have not heard of very many crimes with hunting rifles. As far as air guns, no. When was the last time someone committed a crime with an air gun? I guess this opened up a can of worms for some people, but don't jump on me!!![:@]

Catus Magnus 11-11-2006 10:05 AM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
ORIGINAL: atcfisherman

Then while I was at my deer lease the other day, I noticed a guy hunting with a black powder rifle and asked why he doen't just wait for BP season and hunt with a deer rifle. He said he has a conviction on his record from about 20 years ago and could not use a fire arm, but could use a BP. Nothing against this guy and he is even a very nice new christian man, but I am confused, which doesn't take much. Any thoughts??????
Its true, no background check for ML/blackpowder. But do shush about this; gun grabbers will be all over that one, and feeling rightous about it (not sure how they'll manage to associate ML'ing with crime, though, which is their usual gun-grab technique).

Anyhow... some folks use a muzzleloader exclusively, so that isn't all that odd... if you're in the woods, you don't need a 300 yard rifle.

I'm sympathetic to the guy you met, and wouldn't want him to be prevented from hunting. Lots of decent folks have past felonies. They should leave the buying rules as they are, and allow guys/gals who've 'paid their debt to society' to hunt. AND WHILE I'M AT IT... I don't like the DOJ, I don't like the DEA, I don't trust the FBI, and the war on drugs is a jobs program for the aforenamed organizations. Heck - if you piss of a flight attendant on a commericial airliner -not violence or profanity, just piss her off - she can say you 'interefered with her ability to do her job' and you can be charged with a FELONY. It has happened to many. Of course, the Feds will graciously allow you to plead guilty to 'assault' or somesuch, even if you never assaulted anyone.... but I'm getting off-topic.



FROM THE ARTICLE ALSAQR linked:
Governor Freudenthal says he would favor changing the state law to allow convicted felons to continue to hunt with black powder guns.

Good for the Guv... let this guy and others like him hunt.

HEAD0001 11-11-2006 12:46 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
Definition of irony: I juist purchased an Encore ML-I had to do a background check. At the same time I picked up a 30-06 barrel but did not have to do a background check. Figure that one out.

I do not like background checks, 24 hour holds, 72 hour holds, or anything like that. I think we should be enforcing the laws we already have. If we did that we would not need any new laws. Tom.

atcfisherman 11-12-2006 03:01 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 

ORIGINAL: Catus Magnus

ORIGINAL: atcfisherman

Then while I was at my deer lease the other day, I noticed a guy hunting with a black powder rifle and asked why he doen't just wait for BP season and hunt with a deer rifle. He said he has a conviction on his record from about 20 years ago and could not use a fire arm, but could use a BP. Nothing against this guy and he is even a very nice new christian man, but I am confused, which doesn't take much. Any thoughts??????
Its true, no background check for ML/blackpowder. But do shush about this; gun grabbers will be all over that one, and feeling rightous about it (not sure how they'll manage to associate ML'ing with crime, though, which is their usual gun-grab technique).

Anyhow... some folks use a muzzleloader exclusively, so that isn't all that odd... if you're in the woods, you don't need a 300 yard rifle.

I'm sympathetic to the guy you met, and wouldn't want him to be prevented from hunting. Lots of decent folks have past felonies. They should leave the buying rules as they are, and allow guys/gals who've 'paid their debt to society' to hunt. AND WHILE I'M AT IT... I don't like the DOJ, I don't like the DEA, I don't trust the FBI, and the war on drugs is a jobs program for the aforenamed organizations. Heck - if you piss of a flight attendant on a commericial airliner -not violence or profanity, just piss her off - she can say you 'interefered with her ability to do her job' and you can be charged with a FELONY. It has happened to many. Of course, the Feds will graciously allow you to plead guilty to 'assault' or somesuch, even if you never assaulted anyone.... but I'm getting off-topic.



FROM THE ARTICLE ALSAQR linked:
Governor Freudenthal says he would favor changing the state law to allow convicted felons to continue to hunt with black powder guns.

Good for the Guv... let this guy and others like him hunt.
I totally agree!!!

atcfisherman 11-12-2006 03:02 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 

ORIGINAL: HEAD0001


I do not like background checks, 24 hour holds, 72 hour holds, or anything like that. I think we should be enforcing the laws we already have. If we did that we would not need any new laws. Tom.
I agree as well!!!

Bake North 11-12-2006 06:15 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
atcfisherman I see what you are saying but you are right you don't want to open a can of worms in my home province of ontario you have to take a course write an exam and renew you PAL (position aquisition license)every 5years if you want to buy guns,BP included.Our gun registry up here has really helped lower gun crimes.lol.How many hardened criminals have registered there guns 0,How many legitamite hunters and shooters are they ripping off all of us. [:@]

atcfisherman 11-12-2006 07:17 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
ORIGINAL: Bake North

atcfisherman I see what you are saying but you are right you don't want to open a can of worms in my home province of ontario you have to take a course write an exam and renew you PAL (position aquisition license)every 5years if you want to buy guns,BP included.Our gun registry up here has really helped lower gun crimes.lol.How many hardened criminals have registered there guns 0,How many legitamite hunters and shooters are they ripping off all of us.                                                                           [:@]
Yes this is true. Personally, I think hunting rifles should not have a background check b/c they are not a main problem with criminals who kill. Those people use hand guns b/c they are smaller and eaiser to hide. And, like mentioned eariler, there are people who have a record for something that was many years ago and now they are model citizens, but yet are still punished. I know a few people who are like this and their crimes were not dangerous ones. But, yes I believe in not making waves in the wrong direction. I was just wondering about this.

atcfisherman 11-12-2006 07:18 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
opps....messed up...:D

frontier gander 11-12-2006 09:45 PM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
Actually i've gotten sick hearing about the % numbers of gun crime. They NEVER tell you what the % rating is for crimes commited by registered guns. You know damn well most of the crime commited is by stolen or illegal guns. And besides that, it would be damn hard to trace a ML'er shooting PRB lol. Hey do shotguns have to be registered? If they do, what good does that do? they are smoothbore. Maybe if all of us could afford armed body guards like those movie stars,music stars,football,baseball,basket ball stars andpoliticans, we wouldnt need them. Haha now we all know thats not true. Or maybe we should all move to gated communities so we feel safer? :D

Bake North 11-13-2006 02:39 AM
RE: Why isn't Black Powder considered a Fire Arm???
 
I totally agree with what you are saying about the gun crimes,we have this gun registry that was going to cost the tax payers a million dollars now it is in to the billions and they are thinking of doing away with it.THANK YOU!


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