Black Mag 3 testing
 

It was snowing hard today and cold with some good wind gusts. A perfect day for shooting actually. I grabbed my powder horn of Goex 2f and it was empty...[&o] I went to the powder magazine to get another pound and saw that unopened pound of Black Mag 3 I have been itching to try. So I grabbed that instead.

I wanted to shoot the Knight Disc with some strong charges and see how it behaved in the wind and snow. So I loaded 100 grains of Black Mag 3 and a 300 grain Knight Red Hot on a clean barrel. Fired at 50 yards and was disappointed to see that it hit 2 inches low. I was about to swab but figured I would see how loading another projectile was with BM3. WOW! loading was a breeze.

Took aim at the same bull and touched off putting a nice hole in the bulls eye. Without swabbing loaded and fired again. Again, another hole touching the one in the Bulls Eye. Now I was getting excited. I fired a total of five rounds (not counting the first low hit)and they all hit in an 1-1/2 group at 50 yards.

So I swabbed the barrel clean and dry. There really is nothing in the barrel to swab with this powder. A light gray comes out on the patch, and there is no hint of a crud ring at all. A couple dry patches and we were ready to switch projectiles.

I then changed over to a Hornady 300 grain XTP and shot the first shot. Again, about 2 inches under the bull. Loaded up and shot an 1-1/2 group touching the bottom of the bull with the next five shots. So I swabbed the rifle again, and gave the barrel time to cool. Even though the wind was blowing and it was 30 degrees, I could load and shoot fast enough to heat the barrel up easy.

The next projectile was the 200 grain Shockwaves. First shot about 3 inches low. The next five made a nice horizontal line on the top of the corner bull. Again not swabbing, and I was kind of impressed. The load really seemed to have a lot of power. There was talk that BM3 was 20% stronger then Goex. This might very well be true. It was sure ringing the steel trap.

I then did not swab the barrel and dropped the powder charge down to 65 grains. I loaded a 460 grain Bull Shop conical and shot at a corner bull. At 50 yards it held them all in the 3" corner bull circle but kind of all over the place.

I then kicked the charge up to 90 grains of BM3 and shot 6 245 grain copper cased, hollow point powerbelts. It shot an excellent group with the powerbelts. Actually about an 1-1/2 group in the 2 o'clock position of one of the 3" corner bulls. I was kind of impressed.

I then got out some 385 grain Buffalo Bullet Conicals. It sprayed them all over the place. Some actually missed the target when shoot at a corner bull. Not acceptable at all.

Since the snow had really kicked up and I had shot well over 30 rounds, I decided to call it a day. Clean up with this powder is a dream. A couple patches and it is all done. It took me longer to clean the breech plug threads then it did the barrel.

Overall a nice powder. I am kind of impressed with it and want to test it in a couple other rifles....

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Wow - sounds promising, at least with certain loads. Do you plan to chronograph any these loads?

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

The powder sounds good to me as well but I can't get any retailers around here to buy any and the factory won't sell me any direct. I really want to try it in my Encore.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Well I am still guilty of not owning a chronograph... :D Maybe I am worried that once I get one, I would become too concerned with it and the readings. Then again, I do have that on my wish list for those who do not understand the kind of toys people like me want as gifts....

Pittsburghunter I was impressed with the powder. I want to try it out of a couple different rifles, including my White. Also I was told that 100 grains (in a PM) is a very strong load. The Knight Disc is such a recoil forgiving rifle, I hardly noticed.

I was hoping some of the Black Mag3 shooters on this forum would join in here and give me their secret loads for their rifles. I was told that 90 grains is plenty. I was going to push them up to 120, but the 20% think kind of worried me.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Cayugad, You should try some roundballs!

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Well I was reading more about the powder on Magkor.com and they have ballistics and hints to help you shoot better. I am happy to learn that you do not have to swab the barrel. Also it works for roundball as well. It claims to work in a flintlock, so we will see about that.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

I do own a chronograph and I have compared equal volume of Black Mag'3 with Tripple Seven ffg. (not completely fair as fffg 777 would compare better but I can not find it anywhere around here). In longer barrel rifles like my Omega Black Mag'3 gives me higher velocity and less felt recoil. The powder tends to build pressure slowly compared with the hard sock you get with Tripple Seven. The test I did was with 300gr. bullets in Harvester sabots. I think in short barrels 777 would likely outperform Black Mag'3 on an equal volume basis. I have not found any powder that will perform as well as Black Mag'3 with the same or similar lack of residue after the shot. I am working on getting an address for orders. As good as the powder is for me I really want them to survive. Distribution is the key.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

I have long watched your reports as well as others on this board about the powder. That was why I was obsessed at finding some. I think I was lucky to get the pound I got. The luck you had with it, I was really wanting to get some. I have a relative that will be heading back to the same store and see if they have another pound of it.

It was actually funny, when I asked about the powder at Gander Mountain, they told me they did not carry any of it. We looked in their powder safe and low and behold, there sat a couple pounds of it. I shook the jugs to see if they were hardened and two were, the one I bought was not. Well I found out some of it was, but it broke up easy.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Hardened? What?

How much was it for a pound? Did it smoke a lot like APP or was there not much smoke?

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Thanks for the report! Glad to hear the stuff worked so well for you! Sounds promising. Also sounds like you'll need to fire a fouling shot to use it for hunting, so your first shot at game won't go low. Will be interested in how it works for you in a flintlock. If it turns out that it can be used in a flinter, I know I'll have to hunt some down! There's supposedly a dealer in Martinsburg W.VA who sells it-that's only about 40 miles down the road from me.....

cayugad, I guess you'll have to acquire a chronograph so you can list velocities as well, since you have more or less become the "ML GURU" on this board! (BTW, that's meant as a compliment!)

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

The information I got from one of the people at Magkor is that the flintlock is not reliable if used in the pan. As a main charge it apparently works OK but the pan has to be primed with real black. I have a flintlock but have not tried it as yet. We finally broke below 100 degrees here so I guess I can start shooting if I could find the time. From what I have been able to find out the light off temperature is as low as any of the substitute powders and lower than most but still above real black. To answer the other question; the "smoke" is actually water vapor and there is not a lot of it.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

MLKeith - Well then Black Mag 3 sounds like the Pinnacle. It fired in a flintlock but you had to use a black powder prime.And to make it even faster a duplex of about6 grains (two out of my 4fshort primer first) to really get it to fire fast. After all my testing I was not impressed with Pinnacle in that aspect, so we will see what Black Mag 3 can do in the rock lock. For them I still like good old Goex.

Maybe I will have to try that out later this week. As for the smoke being water vapor and no a lot out of it, well yesterday shooting in the cold and the snow, I'd fire and everything would disappear in the cloud of what ever... I really got a kick out of it actually. The entire target and down range was a cloud of something.

I should point out, it was in the low 30's with gusty winds, and snowing hard at times. That 100º stuff is not for me at all. Happiness is, in the 30's with snow on the ground. Although I do think we had one day last summer when it hit 100 degrees. :D

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Told you so , best powder Ive used so far . Took a nice doe with it last week in georgia , 245 grain xtp ,90 grains black mag , in my knite disk , reloaded and hunted for a few days , then to the range to unload the gun , dead bullseye , very impresed . she droped in her tracks , not one step .

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BM3 works great in my Hawken and Kodiak. Roundball in the Hawken and sabots in the Kodiak. I am only using 45grs and it hits a little low. I am going to start uping the charge to see if starts hitting higher. Like was said clean up is great. It takes longer to heat the water then to clean up! I would like to compare it to other but I am new the BP and it is the only powder I've used.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Well I took the Black Diamond XR out today and loaded it with Black Mag 3.Again all shooting was done at 50 yards off a single bag rest. I was shooting 100 grains and a 250 grain Shockwave. While the accuracy was good, I have to admit I got better accuracy with the Shockwaves using 777 2f. 10 shots and never a swab.. :D I could get used to that. And loading was easy. All of them hit about 3 inches higher then normal.

Then without swabbing, I loaded some 300 grain Hornady XTP's. This time the rifle shot outstanding. I had one flyer, and I think that was truly my fault. The trigger got away from me. I was trying to be so careful and before I was ready the gun went BOOM! Counting the flier it was 1-1/2 inch group. The other four were just a hole out there. All the shots were hitting much higher then with the 100 grains of Goex 2f I normally shoot. Almost 2 inches higher then normal. At 50 yards they are suppose to hit almost an inch high. They were actually hitting 3 inches high. I fired five of them taking the unswabbed total to 15 shots.

I then broke out some .458 300 grain Hornady HP's and orange Knight MMP sabots. Again, excellent groups. Just over an inch with five shots, taking the unswabbed total to 20 shots. After that I got some .458 405 grain all lead flat point projectiles I cast. They shot a 2" group. Because of their weight I dropped the charge down to 85 grains. This was the first projectile that did not hit high. They actually hit right where I was aiming. I was now up to 25 shots without swabbing the barrel. Loading was still as easy as always.

I then got some 460 grain Bull Shop conicals. I was shooting 85 grains of BM3 and it threw them all over the paper. I blame a lot of this accuracy though on the fact that the rifle had fowled the breech area so bad with the Remington Kleenbore 209 primers I was shooting, that the trigger was starting to get sticky. So I only shot three of them taking the unswabbed total to 28 shots. Not too bad for a Black Diamond XR to shoot that many without a swab. With a little scope adjustment, I could have any of the sabots I tried hunting ready in just a few hours.

I then broke the rifle down completely. I wanted to see what would happen to the barrel if I dumped some hot soap and water down it. So I took it to the kitchen and made up some dishwater. I poured that through the barrel of the rifle. Two cup fulls to be exact. Looking down the barrel, it was clean. After scrubbing out the breech threads, the trigger assembly, and the breech itself plus the hammer, breech plug, and nipple... Back at the bench I pushed a clean dry patch through the barrel and it came out clean. I was amazed at how easy this powder is to clean. So I ran a patch with Rusty Duck Black Off through the barrel and got back a patch with Rusty Duck Black Off on it and nothing else.

While this powder does show a lot of promise with SABOTS and clean up is really easy... I still am not convinced that it is worth the money ($25.23 without the hazmat). I can get almost three pounds of Goex ($8.99 a pound without hazmat)for the price of one pound of Black Mag 3. For someone that shoots a lot, that can mean some big savings. After just two days of shooting, I have shot off almost the entire pound of powder. I've saved a little of the Black Mag 3 for a certain flintlock that needs to hit the range, maybe tomorrow... :D

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

cayugad,I think that I will try BM if I can get some; I am getting discouraged with APP FF I tested the 6 cans I had 3 shoot all over the place the other 3 tear a ragged hole @100yd,not a very good average their Quality control must be nonexistant. Lee

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

While this seems to be a good powder, like I said. I am just not sure it is worth the money to me. Its fun to try different powders, but Goex and Triple Se7en have always footed my needs just fine. I think my powder testing days are about over.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

That was pretty much my opinion of the BM3. My two pounds were solidified but I did sort of a slow treatment over a heater vent followed by some serious shaking and pounding - sortof a shake and bake procedure. :) Got it back into powder form and it has remained that way now for quite some time. My shooting was only done during one session and, although I liked the powder's lack of serious residue and it's apparent power (seemed to me to a bit stronger than Triple 7), it just didn't offer enough appeal to offset the lack of availability or its high price. I may try it again some of these days as there is still plenty left for a little experimenting.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

For what it is worth I promised to help with the availability of Black Mag'3 so here goes. It is legal and Magkor will sell up to 96 pounds (four cases of 24 pound cans/bottles or whatever you want to call them) to individuals. I do not have exact pricing but approximately $20 a pound (possibly less depending on volume purchased). The hazmat fee is $20 per shipment so the more the less per can. It is also legal to resell at gun shows etc. without a special license according to my contact at Magkor. If someone wants to try this approach the number to call is**** 954-937-99189 ****(sorry the phone number is incorrect am working on real number). You will likely talk to Giovanni (CEO of Magkor) and if you do it is OK to mention my name (Keith Lewis) as he knows who I am although I do not have any legal or direct relationship to Magkor; I just want the powder to succeed as it is the only thing my Omega will digest on a regular basis without a bad crud ring. I do not think that Magkor has any immediate intent to distribute through a distributor network so any dealer has tomake the same contact. Additional information or just to talk email me at: [email protected]

Just got my reply from Magkor and the correct number is 954-937-9189.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Cayugad If you paid $23.25 for a pound of black mag 3 then you got a good deal. I wanted to try some and paid $36.00 for a pound of it here. That was several weeks ago but I still have not got to try it. I have a knight LK 93 in 50 caliber and a knight disc elite in 45 caliber. My LK 93 likes 90 graines of triple 7 with a 295 grain power belt bullet. I have never fired the 45 but hope to soon. I heard it liked the 225 power belts so I will try it with the high dollar black mag 3. The guy who worked at the sporting goods store kept telling me how good black mag 3 shot in his cva so I took the plunge and now I feel the burn.

WV Mountaineer

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

I've been testing Black Mag 3 the last couple days. I was at the 50 yard line shooting Black Mag 3 in a flintlock. Well it works with a black powder 4f prime, but there is delay. It worked better when I duplexed it with 10 grains of Goex. But I think I will stick with the Goex when it comes to my rock locks.




Then I decided to see how it behaved in my White Ultra Mag .504.
I did not alcohol swab the barrel since it was protected with Sheath from Birchwood Casey Products. Instead I push a clean patch to the bottom of the breech and popped one RWS cap. Pulled the patch and it was all burnt up so I figured I was good to go.

I loaded 70 grains of Black Mag 3 - no wads - no corn meal- and a 460 grain BullShop Conical. The weight of my range rod loaded the conical all but the last two inches. With the conical firmly in place...

At the center bull target (lower left corner) off one sand bag as a rest, I shot a four shot group. The first shot hit right there with all the others. There was lots of smoke, and the steel trap really sang out when it got smacked. I have no idea in the world what the speed of that would be with 70 grains.

No swabbing what so ever, I shot at the upper right corner of the target (upper left in the picture). I was a little excited with that group and left it at a four shot group.

I then aimed at the lower right corner of the target (an picture) and shot a four shot group again. Then we had to show off and I threw one. Why, who knows. I think it was the muzzleloader Gods playing a joke on me.

I shot a total today of forty conicals (should make Bull Shop happy as I will be ordering soon) and never swabbed, had a misfire, or a hang fire. This Black Mag 3 worked pretty good in the White I have to admit.

Clean up of the barrel was easy. I took the rifle apart, poured two cups of hot dishwater through the barrel and it was all done. I scrubbed the breech, the breech plug, and the hammer all in under five minutes. Back at the bench I wiped the scope down, ran solvent patches through everything and found there was no need for that. And had the rifle back together and on the shelf in just over 18 minutes. Not too bad.

I might actually get to like this powder for the White. Especially with the first shot hitting with all the others. That would mean I could leave the rifle loaded all season until needed and expect no rust, and excellent accuracy... trouble is I have no more Black Mag 3 to play with until I can get my hands on some more...three days of shooting on a pound will about do them in.

Just wanted you all to know... As for the flintlock it was a lot more fun & faster ignition, shooting the 100 grain of Goex 2f and a .530 patched roundball then with the black mag....

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

MLKeith,I had the same problem with my Omega and I noticed it had a few light burrs so I lapped it with diamond polishing compound now even 777 is useable it does leave a crud ring but nothing like before. I dont know if polishing will help yours but it made a world of differance in mine it loads much easier to. Lee

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Cayugad - That BM3 sure did work wonders in your White, but I'm in your camp. To pay double or triple for something, it darn well better perform twice or three times as good as the alternative...or I'm using the alternative.

Let's face it, unless you're into competitive ML shooting, the difference between a 1 inch group vs a 1 1/2 group at 50 yards is really insignificant. Especially when the goal is to double lung a deer. Yes, I know, ML hunters should always strive to find and then shoot the most accurate projectile possible out of their smokepole, but IMHO, paying that kind of bread for BM3 is unnecessary when there are some many other alternatives that can be used.

Cayugad, thanks as always for your report.:) Been out chasing deer (nah, the freezer is still empty [:@]) with my bow so I've been away from the board for awhile.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

While today the Black Mag 3 really impressed me a lot, I am still with the opinion, crud rings are not my problem and I hate to pay double or more, for the same amount of powder. If I happen to get to where they sell more, I will probably get another pound (only because I love to tinker). I do want to get a chronograph. I am starting to understand just how helpful they can be in the development of loads.

MidwayUSA has a "Chrony F1" for $69.99 and the Chrony F1 Master (which has a remote monitor) for $79.99. I want to research this model and see if it is any good, and if the extra $10.00 for the remote monitor is worth it. Any experience from any of you on this model would be appreciated....

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

cayugad,I have the original chrony which is similar to the F1, I have use it for something like18 years it still does the job I just set it up and put my spoting scope on the tripod so I can read it with out running out on the range all the time and I mark all my answers down and keep them in a note book so I can refer back to them.I would like one of the new ones but cant justify the expense as long as this one works good.Lee

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Do you think that remote screen is worth the money... my worry is, that's just one more thing to break. Although I could have to get a spotting scope then to check my chrony.. I use the scope of a rifle to check my hits and am not sure I could read a small Chrony down range with it.

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

cayugad

I am using and have been using a for a couple of years now a ProChrono Digital - It really works well. I have made some modification on it by wrapping the hole thing in heavy turkey basting foil, cut out the motion windows on top and put clear package tape acroos them for protection. When shooting I put a clear zip lock bag over the read out display secured with a rubber band.

I only place the chrono about 12 ft in front of the muzzle - I want to make sure that the sabot passes through with hitting the chrono. From 12/15 feet I have no problem reading the read out. One of the draw backs is you need to clean the sky screen rods after shooting because they become coated with residue from the muzzle blast. I mount it on a heavy camera tri-pod with two of the three legs to the rear. I really do not see the chrono absorbing a lot of shock from the blast but there must be some. When I set it up I set it so the scope is looking just under the sky screens - I do not see the chrono at all through the scope, I am calculating the sabot and the bullet pass about 3 to 4" inches under the sky screens.

Remember also Grouse offers a chrono boxfor protection. Their are only two types of Chrono's - One that is packed away and never inharms way and theONE the oneyou are shooting through that will eventually get clipped by a sabot.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/pro-chrono.htm

http://www.competitionelectronics.com/shooting%20products.html

Cabelas- 99.99

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=null-cat600816_TGP&id=0004513221339a&navCount=0 &podId=0004513&parentId=cat600816&mast erpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IG&am p;rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat600816& amp;cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=grav itystream.com&cm_pla=&cm_ite=netcon&ha sJS=true

I also need to tell that when I am shooting through the chrono - it really makes me nervous so I do not get to concerned about groups. So far I have not gotten the courage to set the chrono at the 100 yard target so I can record the actual velocity @ 100 yards. One day I am going to work up that courage but I am not in a hurry yet.

If you get one have fun with it...

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

Hey Mike,

Next time you come over, bring that chrono. I won't be nervous at all to shoot through it at 100 yards.:D:D:D:D

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ya Mike.. he can afford to buy you a new one..:D

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I have the base Crony and it works just great. Two problems; the screen has to be read either up close or with a scope and it is subject to burning powder and sabots or wads. Personally if I were to start over I would spend the money for the remote screen. I had to make a plexiglas cover for the screen on mine as the first one had to be repaired by Crony after I wrecked it with black powder rifles. I think they have a cover available but the remote one solves that problem.

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I was kind of thinking the same way, then a shell could be made to protect the actual machine from all the powder and what if that might fly its way. Maybe in the long run the extra $10.00 is a good inventment. You don't need to be playing with scopes to get velocity readings and at the same time protect the screen. Thanks MLKeith... sounds like a plan to me.

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Just in passing mention,mine is mounted on a steel platewith two vertical steel rods screwed into the plate in front of it on each side, there is a steel plate about 1/8 inch thick with two eyes on each side which slides up when I pull a string and back down when I release it; the sabots bounce right off when they hit it .
I think its a good idea to have some sort of protector in front of it weather or not you have a remote read out model. Lee

RE: Black Mag 3 testing
 

I agree Lee. On a different forum they showed a case with a plexiglass window a person made to protect theirs from the sabots and powder. I think that would really make a difference in them. Steel plates...:eek: I like that kind of thinking..

site posting length
 

How come all of a sudden the posts are way wider than my screen? I have to scroll over to read all the post. It seems that this just happened. Is there a way I can set the site to make the posts less wide? I am not all that computer sharp so maybe I just am overlooking some setting I can do to fix this. Page 4 seems to be OK, it is page 3 that has the problem.

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Because Sabotloader put a hyper link in his post that was a monster long one that extended the size of the viewing window. As to what can be done about it... scroll the screen I guess. This page does not have that of course.

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I tried BM3 again yesterday. I shot it this time without swabbing in between shots. Your correct about how easy it is to load with a dirty barrel. I shot 10 times without swabbing and the 10th one loaded just as easy as the first. I guess my Omega dosen't like it as well as 777. I got better groups than when I shot it swabbing between shots but not real good ones. It seemed to keep shooting higher with each shot( wasn't heat because I shot 777 later and it didn" do it). I didn't try different bullets because I wan't to shoot TMZs, maybe I will try again another time, when it's not so close to hunting season.
I did find a great shooting combo using 777 and TMZs. I shot a one ragged hole, 3 shotgroup, measuring 1/2 inch center to center, at 50 yds. I used 120grs of 2f 777 and a Barnes 290 gr TMZ. I can barely get the yellow sabots down the barrel so I came up with a combo that works great. I use a HPH24 sabot with a HPM sub-base. This loads just right and using Win 777 primers I get nearly no crud ring so a second shot without swabbing is no problem. The dirty barrel shot was abot 1 inch higher, but I can live with that. I tried 3f 777 and the groups were not nearly as good. It was only in the upper 20s when I shot so this will be my deer load.

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Well I was finding BM3 shot different depending on what rifle I shot it out of. So your results confirm mine somewhat. The best thing is you have a set working load that you know will work and take care of business for you. If I had a load that shot as well as you describe, there would be no reason to look further. Good luck hunting this year.. It is fun to experiment though..