Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

I spoke to a gentleman today at a sporting goods store, and he told me that this powder is THE best powder to use. He stated that he only cleans after every twenty shots with a spit patch and dry patch, and has no problems with a dirty rifle. I saw that he carried some of the pellets as well, but they were square instead of round. It was $19.50 for 100 pellets of 50 grian BP equivalent. Anyone have any experiences with this stuff?

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

It may be the best "clean-burning" blackpowder substitute -- along with it's very close relatives (Goex Pinnacle-Jim Shockey Gold).But some of us here feel the "best' powders are not the cleanest powders.

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

My Omega shoots ragged holes at 100yd with heavy loads of APP_FF on the other hand the 35.5 inch barreel on my copy of the Hawken in the ST Louis Musem likes real Black Powder. If you look till you find what the gun likes then you make any compromises you feel you have to.
Lay out a systematic plan find a sabot that is real snug,loose enough to be reasonablebut still tight enough to shoot good Pick out bullets suited to what you will use them for,trybullets suited to the twist per length [ the greenburg formula might help some] try the different powders run a group for every 10 gr then 5 gr on each side of the best one. There are no hard fast rules on what shoots APP-ff works best for my Omega, some people have the best luck with Gold and about half like to clean or is that the dirty ones shoot the best for them? Lee

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

Those pellets are actually sticks, and unlike pyrodex or 777 pellets , one is supposed to crush them before loading the projectile. To give you idea how expensive those sticks are, 50 grains volume of APP weigh in the neighborhood of 41 grains weight. So your talking about 4100 grains weight of the sticks for 19.50 or about $ 33.29 per pound. Were I you and wanted to use it, I would buy a pound of loose, which by the way, I have already done.

So far, my sense is that one must use a minumum charge to get it to work well and burn properly. I would say at least80-90grains. Also this stuff burns slow and is not suited to poor fitting conicals which won't obturate well with it and allow excessive blowby. With tight fitting sabots in rifles with shallow rifling, I think you will be pleased as is lemoyne.

I'm back to black powder, so if you happen to live in colorado, I'd trade you my pound of 3f APP (purchased for $25 + tax) for a pound of swiss 3f black powder.

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

APP is a great rifle powder. And although it might work excellent in this rifle, it is no guarantee that it will work in yours or a different one. I have also seen that APP seems to be fussy with large conicals and heavy sabot projectiles. In a number of my rifles they fail in accuracy when things get heavy. Other then that, with light sabots 300 grains and under, I had some excellent accuracy, and clean up was excellent...

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

Right now I am shooting 100 grains of pyrodex pellets and a 245 grain PB. And, I am satisfied with the results at 100 yards (2" group). Ninety percent of my shots will be under 100 yards. I was curious because of the ease of cleaning, and may give it a try later and compare the results.

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

Criggster - if your getting good results with another powder, that's wonderful. At least you have a standard load that you know you can fall back on. There is nothing wrong with experimentation in the future when you simply want to try and learn. Good luck with your future tests, and I'm glad you have a good shooting load.

The other thing I want to state is, too many people are more concerned about cleaning then accuracy. All powders still have to be cleaned from the rifle. Some are a little harder to clean then others and might take the user a few minutes more to clean. But I would never sacrifice accuracy for convenience and I am glad to see you're not doing so as well. We have an obligation of sorts when we hunt to make as clean and accurate a shot on the animals we pursue, to insure they are dispatched as quickly and painlessly as possible.

Keep us posted when you make the future tests with APP or Pinnacle.

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

I like it and my brother uses it too. Really cuts down on cleaning. I like the 3f the best If i can find it. Some say it doesnt give as high velocities as other powders but how much more velocity does one need. My loads kill and are accurate so that is all I could ask for.

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

Pglasgow, tell me about crushing sticks, thats not the way I have loaded so far and since the one load I like to use sticksthe for holds 7/8 of inch I had not thought about it. what is the advantage ? I don't use them much I really prefer loose.Lee

RE: Any Experiences With American Pioneer Powder
 

I agree with this idea, but because I shoot a couple of rifles that have fixed sights, I want any powder I use to be able to provide a similar trajectory to the one that I was getting from the powder being used when the sights were "regulated". This usually requires a closely comparable MV from any given powder.