Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Getting ready to put in an order there. It's for one of my Renegade 50's with a Green Mountain 1-28" twist.Are there any particular style bullets that you-folks been ordering? Also... I'm leaning towards .503 sizing. Is that about right for this model? I'm also considering some .3985 HPsin 240 grain -- I have a ton of 40/50 blue sabots from Precision to use-up.

Shot about 20 270 gr Ballets out of that new barrel today. Used nothing but Goex FFF.... right around 75 grains at 50 yards. Man that powder is messy & dirty -- but it sure smells nice & the little extra smoke was nice to relive also.

I got to find some better blackpowder for it. May delve into some Swiss or German Schuetzen real soon. Also... forgot to mention I got the Renegade stock assembly back from T/C Inc. They replaced the lock, trigger assembly & hammer -- free of course. Works/fires like a charm now. Even treated the new parts to a brand new Spitfire nipple. That rifle with all those new parts & new barrel seemed like a new gun to me today.

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Dan from BullShop will size them to anything you ask. He also has a couple of differnt lubes he offers. I take the lube made for black powder. I've had good luck shooting the 460 grain and the 500 NEI. I have only shot a few of them out of my Renegade with the 1-28 twist and really do not remember the circumstances.

I will shoot some tomorrow out of the GMB and see how they shoot... Feel free to e-mail him and ask him anything you like. He's quick to answer..

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Dave

I ordered100 No Excuse 460s for it today.

What alloy did you choose from the Bull Shop? I noticed he had three different offerings. I was planning on the 20-1 lead that adds 35% to the bullet package price. His #2 Lube sounds like the best one.

What Swiss Powder granulation should I get for that 50-cal Renegade-- to be used alsowith my other 58-cal Renegade? I think you've used both the FF and FFF - right?? I know the FFF is potent stuff.... what's a reasonable/ballpark grain volume using 400-500 gr. bullets with the FFF?

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

In the White, I have been shooting 70 grains of Swiss 3f with two wads and the large conicals with excellent results. In the other rifles I shoot Swiss 2f for the patched ball and such.

I also get the pure lead conicals. I do not want to try much else because I am not pushing them all that fast. I figure somewhere around 1400 tops. The sure seem to do well though.

The conical that is really giving me fits are the 385 grain Buffalo Bullet HP's. It seems nothing wants to shoot these things. So I will keep trying them with different things also.

I want to try some of the 460 bullshop in the Renegade tomorrow. Also I have some other new stuff to try in one of the rifles, so it should be interesting to say the least.

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

I never had any 100 yard luck with the Buffao 385s, Hornady Great Plains 385s or the T/C Maxi Bullet 370s in my 28" or 48" twists.

Please do a follow-up reporton your range work with the Bull Shop 460s in that Renegade fast twist. Hopefully, you'll be including some blackpowder with it. Are you going to try& stuff those .504 diameters in the Renegade? Let me know how they fit. I was thinking about ordering 503's.

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

will do... its finally raining here tonight but I am sure by morning it will be hot and dry again. I will shoot some Goex as well..

Also I have three 495 grain No Excuse .503 left. I will throw them down and let you know how they fit and shoot. I will do the shooting from 25 yards...

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Sounds good!

Whereabout in Wisconsin are you? What's your closest big city? I'm heading near there in mid-August -- will touch thru a small Southeast corner of Wisconsin after leaving Chicago.

I'm eventually going to St. Louis & Kansas City. May stop at Graf & Sons in Mexico, Missouri & buy a few things while I'm down there.

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

I'll pretty much guarantee 20:1 alloy won't shoot worth a dern in that rifle - go with pure lead. Slug your bore and mic/caliper the slugto find out the correct sizing. Recommend just a hair bigger than measured land to land dimensions. Dave's rifle very probably has a different bore dimension, TC barrel tolerancescan result in some significant differences. You could specify your exact land to land but ask for the single step sizing which will result in a slight increase. Recommend his #2 lube. Understand he can also produce some .50 cal conicals in the range of 300 to 350 grains, you might ask about those as they might perform better in that rifle.

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Good info Rich.

I may just mike one of my bullets that I feel fit that new Renegade bore well. It's the Hornady PA Conical.

Is the Bull Shop pure lead soft ... similar to 5 to 1 REALS Black-Jack Hill sells?

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

All I can say about Dan's pure lead is that itis pure lead (or about as close to pure as one could find) and soft enough to easily scratch with a fingernail. The few BlackJack Hill bullets I tried seemed to be a bit harder than pure... perhaps a tiny bit of tin is in his mix.

Dan is one casting machine but it's possible to encounter a slight delay in your shipment for a number of reasons. He will get them out as soon as he possibly can and most times shipment turns out to be very fast. If you happen to place your order at a time when his potsare full of alloy instead of pure, that situationmight add a few days to the process. He also suffers some pretty serioushealth issues on occasion. Local weather conditions can also be a major factor as Dan and his family definitely live in the boonies. Email your order and be sure to specify pure lead, diameter desired, lube type, quantity and of course bullet type.Dan's wife Tinatakes care of orderhandling and sends back an email showing total due... payment in advance is expected. Shipping will be the same price for quantities up to around 500 with that upper limit dependent on how many can be properly packed in a flat-rate priority mail box.

He will also fill orders for sample quantities if someone would like to mix up an order with smaller quantities of various types/weights/lube. Pricing for that type order will be very reasonable as is all his pricing.

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Good info Rich!! Thanks!!

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Well it was really hot out there today, 89 degree when I looked. I took some 460 grain BullShop Bullets, 500 grain NEI BullShop Bullets, 385 grain Buffalo Bullet Conicals, and some 495 grain No Excuse Conicals.

I used Goex 3f as the test powder. I was shooting 70 grains for all loads.

As to the question of ease of loading... The .504 BullShop Conicals on a scale of 1 to 10 with 5 being the normal loading,would have rated an 8 and even a 9. In one case I had to literally pound the bullet down onto the powder charge.

Even swabbing the barrel did not seem to completly solve the problem of loading the BullShop Conicals. I am not sure if it was the heat and the kind of lube they had, if it was the fowling from the Goex, but they were very uncomfortable to load. I did somewhat even the loading by smearing the outside of the bullshop conicals with my homemade castor oil solid lube. They then went to about a 6.5 for loading on the same scale.

The No Excuse conicals which are a .503 diameter loaded like a dream in the Stainless Steel Renegade. Simple thumb pressure seated them under the crown, and then just a ramrod was necessary to seat them. I was not able to shake them back out of the barrel, so they are about perfect for the rifle as far as the diameter.

The Buffalo Bullet 385 grain loaded very nice. A short starter was necessary to get them into the bore, but after that it took normal pressure to seat the conical onto the powder charge. The Buffalo actually shot very well at 25 yards. This time I put a wad down the barrel on the charge, then filled the hollow base with my lube and the accuracy was very acceptable. What would have happened if I moved back was anyone's guess. I will test that theory at a later cooler time.

The 460 grain BullShop with no wad produced excellent accuracy. Of course this shooting was done at 25 yards, but I was more then pleased.

The 495 grain No Excuse also produced excellent accuracy. While the 500 grain BullShop had their fits. Two would hit where you wanted and then one would drop low for some reason.

Overall Triple Se7en, if you get some bullshop concialsfor the stainless steel Green Mountain barrel you might want them sized to .503. They should load easy and no shake out of the barrel. If your barrel and mine are similar. I do not have the tools to measure the barrel for you...

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Thanks Dave!

.503 appears to be the ticket for my Renegade also -- aftermiking my good fitting P.A. Conicals for the same diameter. The NE's I ordered are .503 & I'll do the same with the BullShop bullets. I'm retiring my remaining Goex -- purchased some Schuetzen FFF& Swiss FFF today. In the samemuzzleloading storewere a bunch of brand new Whites... ie... Tominator, Super 91-I (Special Edition), M-97 Whitetail Hunter & Thunderbolt.

I couldn't believe what I just saw when I zipped around the corner of the ML display in order to retrieve some blackpowder. Now I need to decide what to do about this & who to make aware of my discovery. I surely don't want to purchase all of these. I forgot to ask if the owner had any backstock on these. I'll give him a call tomorrow or Wednesday.:D

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Triple Se7en, I think it was you that recently challenged someone to find new stock of Whites.

Looks like you were up to your challenge!!!!!:)

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Triple Seven........I'm new to this forum and also from Michigan, I was wondering where you found the Schuetzen FFF, I'm having a hard time finding any stores carrying any true black powder. Thanks in advance.

Mark

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

I'll take just a wild guess: Bob's Gun & Tackle Shop, Inc., 2208 Gun Lake Rd., Hastings, Michigan 49508 ph 269-945-4106

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?state=MI&city=HASTINGS&address=220 8+W+M+43+HWY&zip=49058

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

But I'm not worthy!

I see nuthin, I see nuthin . . . :eek:.

Shame on you UC!

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Why? It is just a guess, really. That shop has very high prices on the Whites that remain (so I'm told).

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

My source has none remaining & is not expected to re-order that particular brand.

Here is another source..... best prices anywhere - well... at least outside of Switzerland & Germany. :);)

http://www.uppermotradingco.com/black_powder.html

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

I don't order online but thanks anyway. What muzzleloader shop were you at, I;m always interested in browsing around a new store?

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

The only place I recommend now is the Trading Post I outlined above. Be sure to use an online mapping system like I linked below to find it. This place is defintely in the corn & cow boonies. If you don't look closely approaching it by paying attention to the address, you'd think it was a normal home & barn you are passing by.

http://maps.yahoo.com/dd

RE: Need info on Bull Shop sizing and style
 

Triple Seven.............The place you linked to above is in Nebraska. Where is the place in Michigan?

Mark