Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

I decided to finish the final tuning of the scope at the 70 yard mark since that's where I like them sighted in at. The first five shots under the bull was more then good. I then over cranked it for one and shot over the bull. After making a final adjustment, the other four fell in to the bull like they should. Then to make sure it was not a lucky set, I took a poke at all four corner bulls.





The to press my luck, I decided to shoot groups in the corners. Again, I was more then happy with how this rifle shot. I was shooting 70 grains of Triple Se7en 3f with 2 1/16th fiber wads and a 500 grain .504 BullShop conical bullet.[/align][/align]I swabbed the barrel after the 10th shot. The actual weight of the range rod was all that was necessary to seat the .504 conical after the two wads were set of course. I then would check it, and using the CCI Magnum #11 caps the rifle performed perfect as always.
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I sure do like this White Rifle and the Nikon Pro Sport scope with the Warne QD rings...

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Looks like you have a GREAT start:)

Nice shooting!

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

I can see why, Cayugad! That's some great shooting there bud!

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

cayugad

OK - you know that I don't shoot those conicals, (so allow me at least one dumb question) but after reading your post and cascadedads post about how easy those conicals drop down the barrel of the Whites - what keeps them seated on the powder? I am thinking in an all day hunting situation when the gun hauled all around heck's half acre. I never try to mistreat my gun but I know in a day of hunting it does suffer some bings and bangs.

It really does not seem to me that .5045 is tight enough - if the bore is .504 an additional .005 seems pretty slight... it would worry me.

Ok I am done being dumb this time- gemme plastic - ( I keep telling UC it is not plastic anymore but I can not change his mind)

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

I agree that these conicals do load very loose. Although as the barrel fowls out, they fit much tighter and better. I think it was UC or Surveyor that was talking about teflon taping them to keep the first one in the barrel. I am going to be testing that a little more in the near future.

I had tried to shake them off the loads. The No Excuse Conicals which are .503 I can move off the load and shake them right back out the barrel. The BullShop fit a little tighter although this batch I got this time are not as tight as the last batch, which is why I want to try a few things with them. I think that's why a lot of the people are asking for a .5045 instead of the .504. I like the accuracy I get with these and will stick with them.

As for loading, I use a heavy range rod. After I seat the wads, I put the bullet into the muzzle and the weight of the rod will seat the projectile almost. Although when shooting Goex this is not the case and I suspect this is because of the additional fowling in the barrel from that powder. Also they would be harder to move off the load with the Goex which I will be testing next week as well.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

I got to shoot some of those Bullshops today too. Was 94 degrees when I quit shooting at 10:00. Had to take the kids to the pool to cool everybody off. I took some picture, but your going to have to wait until after I eat a burger to get them.:)

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

I know with mine and no excuse's they will fall out the barrel in fact they fly out a couple feet when I raise the rifle. The Bulls seem to stay put however. I have ordered some .5045 though (not here yet)
Redclub

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Keep us posted on how the bigger .5045 work in your rifle. These .5040 I shoot load easy and shoot great, so it would be interesting to see how those you ordered work.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

I can't wait to get a scope mounted. Will probably go with your exact setup Cayugad.

It isn't a huge priority as I can't hunt with it, but I sure want to do it anyway.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Noticed that you seat the wads before loading the bullet. Is thisfor safety, more consistency . . . something I haven't considered?

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Those wads put a big dent in blowby Phil. Some folks used a 2nd one too -- anoversized next caliber) wad in front of a loosely-fit bullet -- some others use an empty plastic sabot sitting in front of the bullet - when they transport the ML in & out of the woods. Keeps that bullet better seated.

Either oneshould not change POI - will not increase bore pressures.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Phil -

When I was testing the different bullets, I tried shooting them without wads, with one wad, and with two wads, Then I tried loading the wads and bullets together, and tried loading the wads first and then the bullet. As strange as it sounds the accuracy is actually better when I seat the wad first followed with then the conical. Also it makes loading the conical that much easier.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Triple Se7en,,,,tell me you're kidding,,,,right?? That has to be the most irresponsible and potentially dangerous post I've ever read. You NEVER place ANYTHING in front of a bullet once it's seated.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

"Some folks used a 2nd one too -- anoversized next caliber) wad in front of a loosely-fit bullet -- some others use an empty plastic sabot sitting in front of the bullet - when they transport the ML in & out of the woods. Keeps that bullet better seated.

Either oneshould not change POI - will not increase bore pressures."

T7, please reconsider those statements and the wisdom of posting such information. Have you yourself used either of those methods or verified any part of that last statement? IMHO, what you are suggesting could be VERY dangerous.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Well actually when you load a smoothbore rifle, you put the powder down the barrel, then a over the shot card, then a fiber wad (cork looking) then the ball patched or unpatched, and if it is unpatched, then you put an over the shot card on all that to hold it all together. So in this case you are basically placing an "obstruction of sorts" over the ball and I've shot hundred of them that way.

I have often wondered the same thing Triple Se7en posted and if it would work. I do nto think I will try it mind you, but wondered what would happen.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

You mean danger in a large diameter bore White Rifle????.... not in my buddy's White M-97 using No Excuses-- plus not showing any resistance/added recoil at all when I pre-foul my bores using 30 grains of powder with an empty sabot in my narrower bore T/Cs.

Ever hear of double-balling a roundball load? Alot of pressure there ... many times more than an empty sabotin front of a loose conical bullet -something many traditionalists folks don't consider dangerous. Plus... they do it in smaller/tighter 50-cal diameters than a White.

Really no sense in replying any further here. I've seen it done in a White with no ill effects using my 451 Harvesters.... have you??? This is not something I recommend in other MLs with smaller bores. The discussion here was about White Rifles & loose-fitting bullets.

I'm done here.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Let's hope so,,cos with advice like that, you're going to get alot of people hurt or killed.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

I've only been doing the ML thing for a short period of time, but I don't think I would put anything in front of the bullet. I would assume if you put a sabot in front of a bullet, you would want to put the flat side facing the front of the bullet. If it were done the other way, I would think that would be very dangerous. It seems very possible that the "wings", "tabs" or whatever you call them that fit over the bullet normally, could get wedged inbeween the front of the bullet and the barrel. I don't know for sure, but it makes sense that that might very well cause major increased friction and would not be a good thing.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Hey how about a little Locktite????:) Please notice the smiley, I am just kidding.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

An overshot wad is a different matter. Obturation of a conicalto form a seal is desirable as long as that seal isn't TOO good. Placing something ahead of a large, bore-fittingconical in a muzzleloader is called a bore obstruction and, thankfully, no I haven't seen it. I would insist on NOT seeing it. Your buddy's White? How much hands-on experience do you have with a White? I've quite a lot and, yes they are very strong assemblies and yes, your "buddy" probably has gotten away with that nonsense in a White.

Such a piece of evidence in support of your advice such as - I've seen my buddy do it - is hardly what I would call convincing. Sure, hold my beer and watch this!! Not effect POI or pressure? Guess I also need to watch "your buddy" do it... from a distance.

Many, many years ago I double loaded a patched ball in a TC Hawken over 90 grains of Pyro P. When I touched that load off the rifle kicked like a mule from hell, fully recocked itself, left my nose and the right corner of my mouth bleeding, and actually put me a little out forjust a moment. Not a smart thing to doand certainlyan experiment I never care to repeat. That rifle, which had a Douglas barrel, did hold together which only attested to the fine quality TCbuilt intothe piece.

And I'veexperienced the effect of aslightly alloyed conical that was just a bit lopsided in a TC Encore. The load was normal in all other aspects. No blood that time, but anotherVERY convincing lesson. A picture of the scene afterwards would have resembled something from a cartoon.

So my conclusion is, based uponmy own "limited" experience,that suggesting ANYTHING be placed ahead of a projectile is very bad advice. (the only exception would be a piece of tape, finger cot,or similar over the end of the muzzle to prevent inleakage of moisture).

Instead, if one has any reason to doubt or just as a matter of good practice, check the seating of the conical periodically. I have yet to have one come off its seat and there have been times when I would have thought it would have done so. Correctly fitting conicals and checking the seating routinely seem totally appropriate in the use of my four Whites. But I'm no expert.

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

UC,Sure you are, an expert that is.
Redclub

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Hey thanks Cayugad. Knew you'd come through and settle my curiosity. Fantastic groups. Are youplanning to huntwith that load this year?

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

Yes, I am going to see if a whitetail can stand up to only 70 grains of Triple Se7en 3f and that 500 grain conical. I think it will knock one down..:D

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

That could be a very dangerous load!.............for the next one or two deer behind the one you are shooting.:D

No problems, even length ways thru a deer.:eek:

RE: Fine tuning my Nikon Pro Staff on the White
 

It will I'm sure. I'm looking forward to your harvest report.

Happy Hunting, Phil