Bore Butter
 

I know this will turn into a big topic but please don't start arguing. Just post why you use bore butter if you use it and why you don't use it if you don't use it. No comments ofanyone elses postsplease. That is all I want.

I am planning on using bore butter. If I use grease cutting soap when cleaning it will take out the bore butter I applied last time I cleaned it. Then when I am done I could dry the HOT barrel up really good and re-apply so it doese not build up.

I am going to try it just to see what I think of it. It won't hurt to try it if I do it the right way. At the end of each my season when I clean the gun after I shoot it for the last time all the bore butter will come out like it would when I normally clean but instead or re-applying it I will use Birchwood Casey's Sheath for when I know It will be a while before I shoot it again.

I know that might sound a little wierd to some of you but it works for me.

Have a good day everyone!!!

RE: Bore Butter
 

For many years I used bore butter to "protect my barrel." I constantly got tobacco stain looking patches before shooting and swabbing the barrel. I also had bouts of terrible accuracy from time to time. You just never knew what was going to happen until you shot. Finally the accuracy went completely out of the rifle I was hunting with. I removed the bore butter and the accuracy was right back.

I will say that the way Sabotloader and Roundball use bore butter I think will work well. They are not really seasoning the barrel as much as they are using bore butter. They also believe in strict barrel conditions before application of BB.

I tried using bore butter again on a barrel a short time ago. It seems to be working although I began getting the stained patches again. At that point I removed the BB and went back to a quality gun oil.

Bore butter inhibits rust, just like it says on the tube. I used Birchwood Casey Sheath that prohibits the formulation of rust...

RE: Bore Butter
 

mmmmm...........bore butter..............................parkaaaaaayyyy yy!

sorry; couldn't resist.
why would anyone argue about bore butter?????????????????????????

i don't gotta rifle (yet) but i been usin shortning, hoppes gun oil, and wd40on my cap&ball revolver.

could ya use shortning on a rifle??????????????????????????

what gun oil are ya's usin???????????????????????

i also got a little bucket fer water, dish-soap, and vinegar ta spot/clean while im shootin. i don't like too many solvents around the house if i don't need em. got me a $1.14 can a carberator cleaner fer the nipples too.
is this alright fer cleanin??????????????????????????????????????

hope i didn't hijack yer thread, but it all seemed relevant.

early

RE: Bore Butter
 

Sharp Shooter

Tyring to stay with in your guidelines for comment... I use BB because I know it reduces fouling, both in my ML's and my shotguns (trap guns). I think the metod of application makes all the difference in the world, of cousr I think I apply it correctly....

BB will cause leaching if the bore is not perfectly clean... It will leach the old burnt or non-burnt powder from behind the riflings and out of the pores. This might be the "tobacco" stain that cayugad is talking about. I have had it happen in the past also but never really got to concerned - I have actually been hoping to get one again - I want to run one up to the University to have it analized.

I have some old sidehammers that have not been used for years in the back room they have been treated with BB but when I check them I am still getting clean patches....

One last thing I do not depend on BB to prevent rust or seal the barrel - it is just part of the treatment...

If you would like to read the whole process let me know I will send you my procedure....

RE: Bore Butter
 

using shortening as a patch or conical lube will work but the problem you can run into in hot weather is the shortening can start to melt and soak into the powder charge. Also if you shoot to fast and heat the barrel up it can melt the shortening and again contaminate the powder charge.

Soap and water have been cleaning rifles for a long time. Although soap and water will not remove plastic or lead fowling in the case of rifles. For that you need a stronger cleaner. Since you like homemade cleaners make some MAP which is equal parts of murphy's oil soap, isopropyl alcohol and hydrogen peroxide. A word of warning though, peroxide will cause flash rusting in many rifles.

The carberator cleaner or brake cleaner will work fine for the stubborn fowling and even the plastic fowling. Actually the new sabots have really improved.. there is little to no plastic fowling that I can find anymore.

As for what kind of gun you usin... take your pick and I probably have it. WD40 works good but have you ever noticed it varnish over on parts when used too much?

RE: Bore Butter
 

As for what kind of gun you usin... take your pick and I probably have it. WD40 works good but have you ever noticed it varnish over on parts when used too much?
[/quote]
(1858 new army rem)i havn't noticed any yet. but i only use a little bit in the trigger & hammerrecess. i don't plan on usin sabots when i get a rifle. glad you said that about the shortning. i'll definetly invest in some lube when i get a rifle. i didn't like the way the bore looked after a week a storage (i think the shortning solidified in there a little bit) so i removed it and used hoppes oil. i'll have ta keep an eye on the wd40.

early

RE: Bore Butter
 

Bore Butter works fine until you make a mistake using it as a bore rust preventer. If you feel you are a perfect cleaner of MLs& never leave moisture residue in your rifling, then bore buttermay bethe ticket for you.

However, if you prescribe to being perfect/staying perfect, then God must be your real name...lol :)

RE: Bore Butter
 

Well,I guess I see things a bit different. BB works with certain set ups certain sabots and not others. For instance if you like 100grs or less loads and TC Breakaway sabots you can dip the felt wad in melted BB and lay it on paper towel to dry;if your gun is totally clean of other oils and most peoples are not even when they think they are; you can shoot accurate for about 30 shots depending for one thing on weather or not you have a stainless barrel. I like it for round balls in my Hawkens; it did not work well for lead bullets for me. Lee

RE: Bore Butter
 

I use bore butter (Natural Lube 1000)becauseI don't like wiping between shots and except on verydry low humidity days it lets me shoot entire range sessions without wipingt the bore.

I've used nothing but TC's Natural Lube 1000 in every ML I've owned since the late 80's...Knight MK85,several TC Hawken caplocks, and severalTC Hawken Flintlocks.

Best thing since sliced bread...

RE: Bore Butter
 

I like bore butter but do not use it much anymore. Not that the product let me down but my tastes changed a bit. I now use moosemilk for my ball patch lube so I use a lot less of the stuff.

I still use it for all conicals I shoot and for field protection after a quick cleaning but do not store any rifles with it at all anymore.

The main reason I do not use it for storage is I changed to an aggresive cleaning routine that gets me down to raw steel so I protect with good gun oil.

RE: Bore Butter
 

Actually, Iscrub mine to the bare raw metal after every use with steaming hot soapy water including a couple dozen strokes with a bore brush, and a hot water rinse to prevent any buildup whatsoever...still use NL1000 as the bore lube...Iplaster it in there over every square inch of surface area...my MK85 had laid in it's case for a few years that way before I sold it and it still looked like new.

RE: Bore Butter
 

That is the reason I like bore butter to. It reduces fouling.


What is leaching?

RE: Bore Butter
 

Sharp Shooter

leeching (spelling)is the process of over time the BB disolving residue from the bore, either plastic or old powder. The BB forces the material out of the pores or from behind the riflings... THE big thing & the MUST not do is not to trap water in the bore - Having a hot bore or removing water with alcohol as cayugad does can take care of that...

RE: Bore Butter
 

I don't use Bore Butter, because I did use it once according to directions, and got the ONLY CASE of after-rust in my bore that I have ever had with muzzleloaders, and I have been using black powder and BP substitutes since 1953.

Some unkind Bore Butter advocate had the effrontry to intimate that my bore was not clean when I lubed it up with that crap! He was wrong!

Two quarts of boiling water, followed by four or five several dry patches removes ALL POWDER fouling, leaving nothing but hot, dry bare steel (three quarts for cal. .58 & above), awaiting application of a rust preventative. (I don't know what is needed to get plastic streaking out, but suspect Bore Butter won't do this. You probably need a solvent like Shooters' Choice.)

I had used Birchwood-Casey SHEATH as a rust preventative from about 1963, prior to trying that damned BoreButter, and have gone back to using SHEATH! I've never had ANY rust in ANY GUN when using it! Modern rifle or ML!! This includes three years in Alaska, where EVERYTHING RUSTS!!

RE: Bore Butter
 

i have been using bore butter from 1971 to now.no rust i ever saw but i clean after every shooting with water/soap.i did get brown patchs all those years .NOW, i only use bore butter with roundballs.why, i makes it easier to push ball in and fouling is reduced. i clean after 5 th shot as my rb get hard to push in.my patchs are bb.i stopped using maxi-balls for hunting and now using powerbelts,so i dont need the bore butter for hunting and i use clean barrel.95 % of my shooting is rb at range. 1 week before deer season, i load up the powerbelts and sight in. takes about 6 shots as they are not cheap.then, after season, back to rb and bore butter. for storing i use sheaths, no more bb even tho i never had any rust that i could see with bb in 35 years.

RE: Bore Butter
 

I've been useing it for many years in ML'rs, cap n ball revolvers,BP cartridge rifles and revolvers, no trouble with rust or any so-called build up. To be honest, if the gun is really clean and dried, plain old Remoil will keep it from rusting as well as it does for smokless shooting guns.Anything that will keep the air off of metal will prevent or slow down rust but if any kind of salt or corrosive is between the lube and the metal, you will still experience some rust-might just take a little longer to form.

Doug

RE: Bore Butter
 

Exactly.

RE: Bore Butter
 

Bore Butter is fine for a shooting (patches, conical) and in the field lubricant.Iuse it and other natural lubes all the time.

However, I would not use nor recommend using it as a metal protectant or long-term rust preventative. It's not to be trusted for long term storage as bore butter relies on barrel heat as a result of hot water cleaning to allow it to flow to every surface area. However that is not a reliable method for lubricant distribution and coverage. Also, the use of BB can result in a buildup within the bore that eventually causes reduced accuracy unless you srub the bore to bare metal every time you clean, and then you run the risk of flash rusting. Plus as mentioned, if you happen to trap moisture under the BB, then rust will take place.

Some folks love BB as a long term storage lube. That's fine, I certainly don't want to change anyone's practices and as long as it's used on your ML-ery not mine. :D

For me for long term (more than a day or so): Otis 0-85 Ultra Bore inthe boreand Clenzoil outside the bore.

M2C,

Tahquamenon

RE: Bore Butter
 

when i use real hot water with soap to clean the bore butter out of barrel, i get rust on my patchs. when i use luke warm water or cold water,i get no rust on patchs.i guess you folks call it FLASH RUST.question is,should you being using real hot water to clean bore butter out or luke warm water. hmmmmmm

RE: Bore Butter
 

I use and have always used boiling or as close to it as I can get water and laundry (1tbs/gal) soap.

The hotter the better.

Wear a heavy glove or use a towel to hold the barrel.

The brown coming out on a patch may be the "Seasoning" or otherwise burnt/baked on bore butter. Might not be rust.

After the hot water rinse, I also always run some alcohol patches in the bore to help rapidly evaporate moisture followed by dry patches and then Long Term Metal Protectant.

m2c

Tahquamenon

RE: Bore Butter
 

Yes, or it's not all coming out.

Bestexample I can give is leftover breakfast egg residue on a plate.
You hold that plate under cold or even tepid water and the egg residue remains stuck to the surface of the plate.
You change that to fulkl "hot" water, and in seconds it completely melts and slides right off the plate.

I've used noting but NL1000 and steaming hot soapy water ewithy hot water rinse for 15+ years...bores are as perfect today as they were when I bought them.

The three steps to cleaning and lubing a muzzleloaderbore must be done completely.....the bore MUST be:
1)100% cleaned;
2)100% bone dried;
3)100% lubed to insulate it from contact with the air;

If all three steps are done to the 100% level, it cannot rust, period.
If anyof those stepsare done less than 100%, therewill most likely be rust.

RE: Bore Butter
 

it was rust.you could see it near muzzle and i put my small finger in barrel .only got it with boiling water.

RE: Bore Butter
 

Isn't this wierd how some of us get alot of rust using bore butter but other get none at all? I am going to go check my bore and I will post what I see later today.

RE: Bore Butter
 

only time i saw rust using bore butter was when i use hot water.i run patch in and it comes out but i saw rust in bore after hot bath.

RE: Bore Butter
 

I own a tube of bore butter because it was on clearance at Walmart but I've never opened it. My omega is stainless and I shoot only sabots. I have not been convinced that this setup needs a greasy product for protection. I clean with boiling water, alcohol, and when dry I protect it with breakfree CPL. I haven't been at it long but so far no problems. From what I gather bore butter is messy and I don't want to have to remove something like this from my barrel before shooting. It just doesn't make sense to me. If I shot round balls/conicals I would use it for loading...maybe that's why I hold onto it.

gopherfan

RE: Bore Butter
 

Sharp Shooter,

Now you've got me checking some old guns I don't shoot that often..LOL, they are fine.

As far as why some get brown patches and others don't, I can only speculate that it's in the preceedure being used or some environmental issue. Like everything else in this game, whatever one uses that works is what they shouldstay with.

I have a .54Lyman GPR and while it's 32" bbl. was a good shooter, it was also a little long/heavy for my ground pounding style of hunting-I bought it new and never had trouble with rust. I purchased a shorterused Deer stalker bbl with a nice enoughbore and reworked it to fit on the GPR, first few times I cleaned it with my warm water/dawn dishsoap/BB routine I got brown patches in a few days. I ended up soaking the bore with carb cleaner, bushing and cleaning the heck out of it, took awhile but it doesn't foul the patches anymore. It looked and felt clean befor I started so I don't know what was in there or what the previous owner did to clean it but since it's OK now there must have been something in it.

Doug

RE: Bore Butter
 

you are right. i use bb because it lets rb go in easy and using geox 2f, helps keep things cleaner. i dont use it on my powerbelts,i use clean barrel for deer now. but, i never got rust for 36 years using bb.now, i use sheath to store not bb.after all reading, i dont think bb is good thing for storing our guns but i like it for rb/concials and for patchs/bore buttons.

RE: Bore Butter
 

If bore butter is not good for storing our guns then why do some people store guns for a long time with it that they rarely shoot and don't have problems?

RE: Bore Butter
 

Sharp Shooter

You posted a question that really has two sides... Hardcore believers both ways and that is one of the things that makes this country great. You have the right to choose. You also going to be able to make decision based on input - if you are able to decipher pertenent information from bias.... good luck - I'll get that information sent to you tonight....

mike

RE: Bore Butter
 

dont know, i used it for 35 years to store my hawkins.no rust, now i use sheath,you figure.

RE: Bore Butter
 

I'm going to make a general statement not aimed at any specific individual:

The answer to your question is really very simple...how many times have you ever...ever...seen anyone post that they screwed up?
That they didn't get a barrel 100% clean?
Or 100%dry?
Or 100% coated with lube?

What is typically heard is that"this lube is no good" or "that powder is no good" or "those patches are no good".....orthis, that, or the other.

One or two individuals come along and say they "tried it once" and their barrel rusted...then they start bad-mouthing the product like it's the problem.

In reality, bore butter has beenin use for a couple decades I know of...it's been successfully used by 1000's...probably 10's of 1000's...of shooters...heck, I've used it constantly for 15+ years myself with a dozen and a half muzzleloaders...just did another one this morning after this week's Saturday morning range trip.

So that's the answer to your puzzlelment as to why "the product" works for some and not others...because it not a "product" problem...it's a "process" problem...one of the steps is not being done correctly...and in those cases I'm certain the user doesn't even realize it.

But the bottom line is this.....It is impossible for a piece of metal that is 100% clean, 100% dry, and 100% coated with a lube to rust...coated with ANY lube...bore butter, vaseline, lithium grease, or whatever.

IMO, the biggest mistake people make using bore butter is not using enough of it...it's thick and does not run/migrate around on metal surfaces to eventually cover everything...it only covers what you put it on...if every square inch of the bore is not plastered with bore butter, whatever areas areleftexposed to the air will begin torust.

I take a popcicle stick or putty knife and spread extra lube (from a tube) onto the lubing patch...and do that 3-4 times until I'm certain the bore is heavily gooped up with it...then I just dry patch it out before my next shoot, etc.....it's not a product problem...it's a process problem.

RE: Bore Butter
 

The brown crud you get out of the bore after storing with BB is not nessisarily rust. The stuff is sitting there in the barrel for months do you think it is going to stay yellow? As I posted earlier I still use the stuff just not for storage of my rifles only because I have changed cleaning methodes. It did work fine for me though and I have nothing bad to say about the product.