Winchester Apex?
 

Anyone have this gun or any opinions on this particular gun?Not really looking for comparisons,just if it is a decent gun or not.Thanks!:D

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

I believe it is the same gun as the CVA Kodiak which has had more positive responses than negative. If you are not sensitive to the Spanish barrel flap then the rifle is probably worth the money. It is an Omega copy and the one I had a chance to handle was fairly well built. Not the same quality as the Omega but certainly worth the asking price if that is the type of muzzleloader that you want. There was a tendency for the finger to get pinched by the trigger guard when opening the action. The stock needs to be smoothed and the sharp edge removed before you cut something when opening the action.

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

The Winchesters have a stainless barrel

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

It really depends on the price tag -- plus how many powder grains are you seeking to burn per shot????

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

Thanks guys.I'm going to go with the 150grw/pellets,and I am going to mount a scope on it.I have a traditions buckhunter pro,but it only has a 22" barrel.

I'm looking at the black/blued .45 cal.I plan on shooting 225 gr Aero tip powerbelts.(If it likes them).I was going to get an omega,but decided not to since this gun was $100 less.($199 vs $299 for black/blued).That's $100 more dollars that can go toward a setof mounts,and adecent scope.

I think I'll have to give it a go,and I'll come back,and let everyone know how I like it.I'll surely check on the problems MLKieth stated.Thanks again!:D

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976730078.htmis a .45

989-269-GUNS Randy's Hunting Center

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

I do not recommend any CVA, Traditions or Winchester for 101+ grain powder loads. They are not built to take that sort of repeated punnishment.

Buy a T/C or Knight instead. They withstand better -- overall are very accurate with 120-150 gr. loads & have much better warranties.

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

ranchand99

Sorry for jumping in here kinda late, I am not as concerned about the brand of rifle you have chosen as the caliber you are choosing. There really has been some problems with accuracy in the 45 caliber line, the 50's seem to shoot just fine and some 45's but - make sure you are getting it from a dealer that - if things do not work out you can with him to get you some thing else...

I am not concerned if you, as an experianced shooter,are planning shooting 150 grains inpellets as recommended by the manufacturer - if you are shooting loose check your manual. While some guns and some bores will shoot 150 grain loads they are not always the most accurate - so keep that in mind also. I have a CVA firebolt - 50 cal - and while I have shot a several150 grain loads.. experimenting,from it I did get the best accuracy from a 100 grain load with a 300 grain XTP.

Just want to add another thought - if you were are considering an Omega, but the extra $100 is a hold a couple of points for thought. 1) You can not beat TC's lifetime - no questions asked warranty - that alone could be worth the extra $$$.... + I think but can not remember the site you can get a blue/back Omega for $260... I'll look and get back to you - the name excapes me right now but I know Underclocked will no it....

Here is one place but I think there is one less expensive than this...

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000318898

ops that is a 50 - here is a 45

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000318921


Good luck and certainly have fun...

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

I was not aware of the warranty that T/C offers,that may change my mind.

Triple Se7en,what is the difference of material they use to make the guns?Are the barrels a different grade or something?I was under the impression that if the manufacturer says 150gr..it was built to handle 150gr.I put a magnum kit on my traditions,but only shoot 100gr loose select R/S.It's real thick down here,so I think 100yd shots are going to be on the far side of my range.If I can get a decent pattern (3" or so)at 100yds with 150gr pellets that is what I'll use.Is that a reasonable goal?If it doesn't hold a good pattern at 100yds,I'll go to loose powder,and start dropping the load 10gr at the time.

I can't shoot open sights too accurately past 65yds.The fiber optic starts to cover a larger area.Scopes are going to be legal during primitive weapons season starting this year,and I wanted something with a longer barrel,and the .45 cal shoots very fast,flat,and has plenty of knockdown.

Thanks for the help,and info..Keep it coming!:D

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

Bullet for bullet and load for load a 50 cal. will do anything a 45 will do and you have a much better selection of bullets to chose from. If you are only shooting out to 100 yds. why do you need a 150 gr. load? I have dropped deer on the spot at 160 yds. with 100 grs. of 777. And the recoil is much more tolerable.
If you want a 45 I have a Knight MK85 laminate you can have for $135

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

Speed,and energy is greater with the 150gr loads.Faster it is the less it drops.Most shots will be less than 100yds,but I may set up on a clearcut,and take a long shot.I'm going w/powerbelts no matter what.I almost threw my traditions buck hunter pro away until I found them.I have killed several with my traditions,but I just don't think it would be accurate past 100yds,b/c of the short 22" barrel.If I buy a new gun I'm not going to half-step it,but I don't want to sell everything to buy one either.

Do you have a pic of that knight?How long is the barrel on it?I want something with a 28"+ barrel.Thanks again guys.:D

I was under the impression that the .45 cal was the hot ticket for long range.[&:]

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

ranchand99

I can not argue with this statement, because I do not have enough facts... but I will tell you I am shoot a 10mm 200 grain Hornady XTP @ 2200 fps secondwith 110 grains of T7-2floose powder.It is extremly accurate and will reach out there a long ways.

Most people, certainly not all, are shooting the 250 grain SST/Shockwave to 200 yards with extremly good accuracy and energy... I think I have a Ballistics chart for the 250 - I'll include it...

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

ranchand99

Should have included one for a power belt also... this is for a 245 grain

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

PM'd ya ranchhand99

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

I have one and it shoots very good at 100 yards...with 150 grains it does not shoot as well....,...this gun shoots with 100.....the book says nothing over 120...

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

i too have this muzzleloader, and so does my dad. for the money i think it is a very nice gun. i also shoot 100 grains of 777 with powerbelt aero tips. for me it gets the job done, and was affordable. i just went up to gander mountain and saw one on clearance for $170, which kinda makes me angry cause i paid $300 for mine. but oh well.

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

cva,winchester, traditions not good for 100+grains of blackpower? LOL give me a break. i shoot a winchester X-150 and use 150grains of pyrodex RS and have zero problems. It has a 26" fluted stainless steel barrel. I shoot 245 grain power belts and its the best muzzleloader ive shot. I dropped a2 doeslast year at 146 and another at 148 yards with it, Open sights and off hand. CVA/Winchester is a great company to deal with. I had an old cva blazer " cva's first inline" i accidently stripped the nipple plug and they said send it to us and we'll send you a referbished .50/209 inline! You cant go wrong with them! I also own a traditions kentucky classic flintlock rifle in .50 cal, That thing out shoots my TC percussion Renegade! Get either the apex or X150. i own the x150 and it will be the last inline i will ever own!

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

Speed,and energy is greater with the 150gr loads

This will always be true, but not always needed. Accuracy will almost certainly be less, with 150gr powder/pellet load.

Most shots will be less than 100yds

...at which distance, 90-100gr powder and a 300gr XTP will kill deer quite dead

I was under the impression that the .45 cal was the hot ticket for long range

I've heard the same thing, but I have heard much grumbling about probs with .45.... and I don't think they offer any substantial advantage over a .50

I think the 80/20 rule applies for muzzleloading, or maybe the 95/05 rule: you can put a lot of extra effort/$ into getting a few extra yards & better paper ballistics, which in the real world of the deer woods are almost never is required, and rarely pay off. But then, I've never killed a deer past about 90 yards - often can't see much further than that - and at that distance a pedestrian XTP on top of 90-100gr of BP/BP substitute is quite deadly.

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

150 grains out of my APEX does not shoot as well as 100. It still shoots good do not get me wrong but I keep it at 100...

Powerbelts and TC Shockwaves shoot the best. the group is about the same

I have shoot deer with both and they both do a great job

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

All I will say is I have shot deer to 200 yards with loads other than max. I have found absolutely no use for 150 gr charges in mine or others MLs, as accuracy decline is not worth a little less bullet drop. IMHO if you want to shoot to 200 yards most inlines with 240-300 class bullet and the most used 100 gr area of loose powder will get it done!!! However far more is dependant on the shooter!!!One mustput forth the required time/effort and work to be truly proficent at the further ranges. One thing many forget is the rest and conditions in the field - shooting off a bench at optimal conditions isn't all that difficult but add the hunting/field elements into the mix and then you find a few more hickups. I will say 150 yards is where I draw the line for everyday max range (but much prefer 100), if a solid rest, yardage known and conditions are right I may attempt the longer shot. I practice at 200 a lot and drew this conclusion from my own experiences, while I have confidence in ability and equipment I simply don't think a ML is a 200 yard gun for all and certainly stuffing more powder down her doesn't always make sense either (in practical or real terms).

As far as the apex from what I have seen nothing wrong with the rifle but I also wouldn't suggest more than 100 ish for top end loads. While it may work for some, others have been hurt on their first try.. If you want to try upper loads look at something else ie: TC, Knight, Savage, etc. Good Luck

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

not to beat a dead horse but in the APEX manuel it states not to exceed 120 grains of powder.


There is not place around here to shoot over 100 yards for us in CT

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

I know this is off topic, but I can not even imagine.

RE: Winchester Apex?
 

The land in the North East is very hilly or even mountanous and with all the vegetation a 100yd shot is very rare.