460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

It has been a long week of working in the woods cutting firewood and my new shooting range. A long week of not shooting everyday. [&o] I finally was back to where I wanted the range to end. There, at the back of the range,was a large Popular Tree there which was about 3' on the stump in size. I decided I had behaved so well all week working, I need to shoot the White Rifle. I was going into withdraws reading all these posts of everyone else shooting.

For those not aware, a Popular Tree is not a hard wood. It is a softer wood, but being a green tree does have a lot of strength.

I took some marking crayon red in color and made a 2.5-3 inch circle on the white bark trunk of the tree. From the 100 yard station with the White Rifle shooting 80 grains of Triple Se7en 3f, 2 -1/16th wonder wads, and a 460 grain NO EXCUSE CONICAL.

The two hits aimed at the RED DOT were side by side in the dot,looking at the outside of the tree. They actually travelled approximately 9 inches into the three, but took different paths as they travelled through the tree. I also shot a 200 grain Shockwave with 100 grains of Triple Se7en 3f under it. The 200 grain Shockwave travelled just under 5 inches into the tree.

The 460 grain No Excuse weighted 449.7 grains & 446.3 grains with an excellent mushroom pattern. The 449.7 grain conical expanded to 7/8th of an inch. The 446.3 grain expanded to 15/16ths of an inch which I was very impressed with. Just thinking of driving a hole that size through an animal would be most exciting. Also the degree of penetration was very impressive. I could see this conical making it a long distance through soft body tissue of a deer or elk.

The 200 grain Shockwave weighted 176.0 grains and flattened out to 3/4 of an inch which again was very impressive. It should be noted the Shockwave hit three inches higher then the large conicals.

I am not trying to compare the density of an animal to a tree by any means. All I wanted to see washow well the conicals held together. The Shockwave really impressed me holding together as well as it did. This Shockwave would really IMO make a good deer load.

All I really wanted to do was make an excuse for shooting the rifle and not working all day... :D

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

Pure lead holds together amazingly well, even in very tough tissue. That 460 grainer would be good for anything up to and including moose, IMHO.

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

Cayugad,
Where do you get the 460 gr. No excuses from? And what do they look like. Would you post a pic of one before shotting it. Thanks. I hear you talking about them often, wanted to see one before it was shot. Nice expansion and retention

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

http://members.aol.com/noexcusesb/page2.html

A fellow in Utah named Dave makes them. He does a beautiful job on them and Dave is a real pleasure to do business with as well. He also makes them for the .45 caliber.

In the .50 caliber they come in 460 & 495 grain weights. I have found you do not have to push this big chunk of lead all that hard to make it work for you.

I often times think of the old buffalo rifles in 45/70 caliber which normally (as I understand it and was toldto me)was a 405 grain .45 caliber projectile on top of 70 grains of powder. I think anyone that read any history of the old west and the buffalo hunters understand the range and killing potential of that cartridge. They made some impressive long range shots with these charges.

These No Excuse conicals and other large conicals I think work on the same principle. They throw a large chunk of lead, maybe not a break neck speed mind you like some of the sabot loads out there, but the conical thenrely on the energy of the projectile to do the work intended.

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

Cayugad, That is some good expanding. Have you ever shot the 535gr No Excuses in the 54cal? What were your results with accuracy?

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

no I never have. I have shot some 405 grain powerbelts in .54 caliberand they expand real well also...

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

Ive shot some 535 gr.NE in my .54 Thompson Firehawk with 100 gr. APP. Real accurate. I shot one into a soft hillside at about 40 yards and it expanded just like the onescayugad showed. I love these large conicals. I killed one doe with them. I hit her high in the back and it took out a part of her spine the size of a baseball. Dropped her in her tracks(spine shot) of course. Didnt recover bullet. I also use the .50 cal.495 gr. but no luck at getting any game with it yet. It is very accurate out of my Renegade kit rifle with 100 gr. APP. These bullets load easy and are accurate. The service from the guy who makes them is terrific. He will even send you the bullets first and bill you. He guarantees them too. From the siteCant beat that. Here is the link again http://members.aol.com/noexcusesb/index.htmlCheck em out.

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

You are the first person I have heard of who has been able to get big conicals to shoot well with APP. I tried 80,85,90,95, 100, 105 and 110 grains of loose APP and never got better than a 4-5 inch group at 50 yards with a no excuse 460 grain bullet. So, at least in my gun (an Omega), it doesn't appear to work well. Hopefully 777 will throw them better in my gun. Yes, I could get a refund, but I am still hoping to find the right combo to get them to shoot well.

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

I might have to get some for my 54cal and try them out some day.

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

I have had great luck with .50 cal 460 gr. No Excuses in my Omega. Shooting 90 gr. of Goex FFF gives 2-3 inch groups at 100 yds...If I do my part. I have tried Pyro, Pinnacle, 777 and BM3. None could match the accuracy of 3F blackpowder.

Great bullet...took a nice big doe at 45 yds. last fall...clean pass thru...massive wound channel. Highly recommend the NEC!

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

elk_chaser1 - Perhaps your on the same track as I am. I first started shooting 460 grain No Excuse Conicals out of my T/C Black Diamond XR. I also use Goex 3f or Triple Se7en powder and get some very impressive accuracy with them. My rifle is scoped, but off shooting sticks on morning in a drizzle rain, I wanted to check the rifle for the afternoon deer hunt. I was able to shoot the best group ever with the Black Diamond and the No Excuse Conicals.

This new White Ultra Mag is really an impressive rifle. The way it handles conicals is amazing. And thanks to Sabotloader's determination to test the Ultra Mag with sabots, which I too later did, I discovered it is an all around rifle.

AfterI dug the conicals out of the tree, I was shocked at how perfect they mushroomed and then their overall weight retention. I think I have found my future elk load when I get the opportunity to wander out west.

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

My Renegade TC kit rifle in .50 cal. is extremely accurate with the 495 gr. NE conicals and 100 grains APP. I shot a group off the bench with three shots in about 2 inches with open sights using the double set triggers at about 60 to 70 yards. My buddy gave me almost a new box of the NE460 grainers because his black diamond xr will not shoot them. Freebies!!!I think he only uses pyrodex pellets for all loads. He said it would throw them all over the place. He doesnt experiment much with different powders. Now if he fooled around with load developement for his muzzleloaders as much as he does his centerfire rifles he might have got them to shoot. He has5 muzzleloadingrifles and doesnt even hardlyshoot or hunt with them. He has a TC white mountain carbine, 2 TCBlack Diamond XRs, A TC Firestorm and a Remington youth .50 cal he bought from me. I bought the Renegade kit from him or he would have 6. All those rifles just wanting to be used. What a shame.

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

Too bad,icannot get any ammunition or firearm through the border.Any store in Canada where i could buy some?
Taureau noir

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

I was not aware that you could not get rifles and ammo across the border. That is a real shame. It would be thetime I'd be contacting my government offical and advise them of who put them in office and what I need. Are hunters from the States coming to Canada allowed to bring rifles and ammo across the border? It's been many years since I moose hunted up there. If they could it would be nice if they "brought extra" and then decided to leave the surplus for someone...

Another option is get a mold similar to the projectile and cast your own, but that can be a lot of trouble all in its self...

RE: 460 grain No Excuse Expansion
 

If anybody has a T/C 48 twist 50 cal. Hawken barrel, you should give the .50/460 Noexcuses bullet a try. It shoots extremely accurate out of mine and I have killed two deer with that bullet. I shoot 85 gr. of 2f Goex.

If the bullet retained that much of itself being dug out of any kind of tree, I bet it retains almost all when it punches through a deer.

I was suprised at how well the 48 twist stabilized that big hunk of lead.

The 1/48 twist barrel is my fast twist barrel and my round ball 1/70 twist barrel is the one I have the most fun with.

I really like round balls and full size conicles.

C. Davis