APP Residue
 

Purchased a canister of APP to try in my .50 caliber Encore. Was shooting 100 grains by volume and using Winchester 209 primers as the ignition source. Fired off about 20 rounds.Upon getting home and beginning the leaning process noticed that the inside cup section of my breechplug was pretty much loaded up with a sugary type residue? Now I am aware that APP issugar based (ascorbic acid?) but is a build up natural? Would a different primer, maybe less hot than the Winchester be a better choice for this powder? Your thoughts.....

RE: APP Residue
 

If your shooting a Winchester Primer, and using loose APP a Remington Kleenbore Primer might help, but really I get that build up in a lot of rifles with a lot of different powders. If you are concerned, then try some different primers. See what happens.

I use the Remington Kleenbore Primers when shooting loose powder and the W209 Winchester when shooting pellets...

RE: APP Residue
 

I would not go to a weaker primer with that powder. You may regret it about 3:00 PM on a damp day of hunting - being outdoorssince sunrise -- when a trigger needs to get squeezed & a primer weaker than your Winchesters does not fire the wettened APP powder.

I recommend everyone bring along a few of the hottestFederal 209A in your possibles bag while hunting as a backup primer. Could mean the difference between manually pulling the load when it may not fireor have it fire quick & easyusing the Federals.

RE: APP Residue
 

I shoot APP in stick form & I get the light grey
build-up but it's not hard to clean-up. I use the
Rem. kleenbore primers, after two bottles of powder,
I've not had the first miss-fire. I do carry some
Win. 209's in my backpack. But so far the kleen
bores have done an excellent job.

RE: APP Residue
 

The statment that APP is sugar based is a little misleading. One way of making ascorbic acid (which is vitamine C) is to use sugar as a source of the acid. The result does not have any characteristics of what we would recognize as sugar. I have seen others refer to the APP fouling that sometimes occurs. I have not shot a lot of APP so I cannot comment. I have shot Black Mag'3 which is similar in form and the only thing I find in the barrel is some gray powder. I use the .25ACP conversion in my Omega with Winchester small rifle primers.

RE: APP Residue
 

I use APP with musket primers and 150 gr. loads been doing so for better than 2 years no ignition problems as yet and it leaves less residue than the Omega with a winchester which is what I normally use since I had a couple thousand from shotgun reloading. Lee

RE: APP Residue
 

I dont know where everyone is getting the idea of the dampened APP powder thing. Ive used it on damp days, rainy days, snowy days, etc. Ive never had any problems with it not going off or any delays in firing. It works like any other powder Ive tried and it is the cleanest I have used to date. Someone must be letting rain or moisture go down their barrels for this to happen. Any powder will get wet and fail if you allow moisture to get to it. A piece of tape over the barrel wil prevent this from happening but I have never used it. I just dont hold my barrel skywards if it is raining or snowing which makes common sense. As for the primers i have always used the winchester muzzleloading. I did use federal 209 primers for reloading before that. I may try some of the remingtons again this year just to see how they fare to the winchesters.

RE: APP Residue
 

I ran side-by-side, rainy weather, all day long tests with APP and 777. That is how I reached my primer recommendations in my earlier post.

With three jugs of each powder (777-APP)that I used in three different tests using one jug of each for every test, I first tested these powders with the lids off& granules exposed to damp air- both driver & pasenger doors open-- jugs sitting on on my pickup centerconsoleduring a four hour light rain.

The next day with the same light rain & temps around 45-50 degrees, I loaded both guns with both powders & laid both rifles under a fully sheltered tree with muzzle upfor another four hours.

The 3rd day, I tested both powders taking them in & out of heated vehicles - back out to the elements - even into the cabin for an hour.

So that's how I derived that hotter primers may someday become a must to have in damp conditions with APP... even777.

My tests concluded 777 lasted longer without a hang/misfire ... but not significantly longer.

==============

Idespise discussing anything withyou Mr. American Pioneer -- even though I like your powder - once I learned to how to properly use it. I shouldn't even had said this much to you -- in defense of my earlierpost.

How I reached the conclusions of my tests will not be available to you - only because of your poor attitude on what was written here before you arrived & read it.

You simply are notworth the explanation of my tests -- due to run-in's with you in the past.
See Ya.

RE: APP Residue
 

Perhaps I am just being a little to over cautious? I liked the way the 2F APP shot out of my Encore but I was just concerned rather or not the residue could possibly plug the opening to my breechplug and cause a misfire? Guess just timewill tell that story???

RE: APP Residue
 

Dondo-

If you ever suspect the breech plug as being plugged or getting plugged, there is nothing wrong with pulling the plug and checking it. I keep some Q-tips with me on the range and have many times, pulled the breech plug and cleaned it and the striker area. It makes everything faster. Unlike when you are hunting and only going to shoot once maybe twice a day. Then there is no need to worry. I do add a little breech plug lube back on the plug when I put it back.

Also when you swab the barrel with a damp patch, if you leave the action open, you will hear air passing through the breech plug. If you hear the air, that thing is open and so it should fire fine. Also at the end of the day, it is not all that uncommon to pull the breech plug and find a lot of residue in there. As long as it kept firing, that's the important thing.

I like APP and Pinnacle powders. They burn clean and are a lot of fun to shoot on the range. I also find some excellent power using them. When I go hunting, I load 99% of the time with Goex though. Goex still is one of the best powders out there. I have hunted with the other powders on occasionthough and never had a problem with them.

RE: APP Residue
 

Dondo, I get the same thing and it has never caused a problem, the only powder I ever have problems with is 777 I don't like having to wipe every shot I never needed to do that with black and it is so had to ignite that I can't use it with anything except hot shot gun primers even then my groups open up because of slight hang fires;I have yet to understand why so many people use it. Lee

RE: APP Residue
 

I'm with you about the use of 777. Personally I have so much trouble with the hard crud ring that forms in my Omega I have offered to give all the 777 I have to anyone that wants to come by and pick it up. One guy said it makes a good garden fertilizer (I may try that next). Many use it because it advertises that it is "more powerful" than black powder. In fine form fffg it might be but the ffg stuff I tried was put to shame by Black Mag'3 which actually over a chronograph performed better than 777 without the dreaded crud ring.

RE: APP Residue
 

I have an attitude? I dont believe you started this post. I was just expressing the fact that some people are always acting like APP is a powder that has the absortion qualities of a sponge. I have never in any way ever said anything directed straight at you or even mentioned your name Mr.Triple Se7en. I have never even bad mouth 777 powder. A person just reading what you said can get a pretty good impression of what type of person you are . Do you have grudges against all people in general or me in particular. Does my Avatar bother you? I dont think the forums is the place to vent them out. I call it flaming. We are here to discuss our views and opinions as adults in adult fashions. To go and say what you said is childish and uncalled for. This is how arguments get started and feelings hurt but I guess you have different morals that i do.

RE: APP Residue
 

Quote from American Pioneer "I dont know where everyone is getting the idea of the dampened APP powder thing. Ive used it on damp days, rainy days, snowy days, etc. Ive never had any problems with it not going off or any delays in firing. It works like any other powder Ive tried and it is the cleanest I have used to date. Someone must be letting rain or moisture go down their barrels for this to happen. Any powder will get wet and fail if you allow moisture to get to it. A piece of tape over the barrel wil prevent this from happening but I have never used it. I just dont hold my barrel skywards if it is raining or snowing which makes common sense. As for the primers i have always used the winchester muzzleloading. I did use federal 209 primers for reloading before that. I may try some of the remingtons again this year just to see how they fare to the winchesters."
I not only agree I live in AR where winter [when we hunt] is usually very wet and I have been using APP FF in my hawken as well as my inline and have not had any problem If you can use it with #11 caps and musket caps in wet weather with out any problem then what are these people doing [and there is a number of them] that do experance difficulty?
The only thing I know of that I do that is not a commenly accepted practice is cleaning the guns with boiling water and making sure they are completely dry before loading for hunting. It rain twice last year in the first week of our muzzle season and I dropped my buck without any miss or hang fires.Could it be that the difficulties are from oil in the barrel? Lee

RE: APP Residue
 

If I could only getAPP to group big conicals with my Omega for Colorado, I would use it, but so far I haven't found the right combo! I have both BM3 and APP, so I am going to keep experimenting. Unfortunately, I have not have any range time lately! Going to try some 460 grain no excuses next. They would not fly with BM3.

RE: APP Residue
 

I've never had luck with APP and Pinnacle when shooting large conicals. Then I use Goex or Triple Se7en or Pyrodex P

RE: APP Residue
 

I agree with the poor results with BM3 and large conicals. I use 777 with the NE's but pyro p should work well too.

RE: APP Residue
 

txhunter58, My best results in the Omega,was with Black FF and Pinnacle
But the thing that made the most difference was a greased felt wad,I make my own with plug cutters and grease them with bore butter, every gun is different I have one that just don't like conicals. Lee

RE: APP Residue
 

Sorry,