I'm ready...
 

Thanks to those that helped out with my questions concerning Colorado ML Regulations. I finally have a grasp on things.

I purchased my new ML this past weekend. I went with a TC Omega in .50 cal. I'm hoping to get to the range later this week to start figuring out some loads. Any recommendations would be appreciated. The load will be for elk. The salesman (who was not a 17 year old pup and seemed to have quite a bit of experience) said he uses 410 gr Great Plains with a 120gr charge (777). That seems beefy to me and I don't know how many times I want to shoot 120gr. Any thoughts on that?

RE: I'm ready...
 

Maybe you might want to look into a Simms Recoil pad if you're going to start pushing lead like that. Roskoe will be able to tell you some conical loads. I think he has been working on a lot of different ones with his Omega and he hunts them giant critters out there too...

Nice rifle and good selection. That rifle will serve you many years to come.

RE: I'm ready...
 

fillae

Just to throw another option in the mix - when I was doing some work on making a decision about bullets one of the bullets I looked at was the 460 NE it is a great conical. I did run the ballistic on a calculator and if had to choose between it and a PowerBelt I probably would have gone with the 460. I can not remember who first suggested it weather it be cayugad or underclocked, but it could really be a goodbullet it the ranges are not out there.

When Roskoe picks this up he will add his thoughts. I think the number one bullet of choice during ML season in Colorado is the PowerBelt, mostly because the ease of loading - not performance.

RE: I'm ready...
 

sabotloader,

I'll check out the 460 NE. I thought about using the PowerBelt, but I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the only lead round they have is a hollow point. I don't think the penetration would be as good as with a flat point. You did say they were used because of convenience and not performance. Are my assumptions about the hollow point and penetration reasonable?

RE: I'm ready...
 

fillae

First off you need to know that I am not a powerbelt fan even though they are made here in Idaho, so you need to take my remarks in that since.

PowerBelts in my mind are nothing more than elongated round lead balls. They can be very effective and they can also not be so effective. They do make a Powerbelt that does not have a HP it a really heavy variety. The HP is not the issue for me - it the fact that hey can blow-up if shot at a high rate of velocity. I also have an issue with the thickness and the toughness of an Elks hide, then the size of the bones... A lot of elk have been killed with a Powerbelt - I am or would choose the 460 on the basis of shear weight and force that the projectile carries. I also understand that my effective range will be reduced.

I also share your belief that a HP will not penetrate as deeply a an old fashioned bullet. In Idaho we can use sabota and a regular bullet - so for elk here I shoot a 300 grain Nosler Partition to insure penetration and no blowing up.

I am not the expert on lead or powerbelt bullets as I use regular bullets, but there certainly are some good ones on here. Hopefully cayugad or UC will come back on and discuss the 460 with you...

mike

RE: I'm ready...
 

Since you're shooting an Omega you might want to try the 460 grain No Excuse Conical. Load about 80 grains of Triple Se7en under them Whether a wad will help you would have to experiment with. They have a lot of weight and a lot of down range energy. I have never shot an elk with a muzzleloader so all I can do is guess how effective they would be. They would be my choice for a hunting projectile in your circumstances.

Another choice is the good old Thompson Center Maxi Ball (Not the Maxi Hunter). You can push these pretty hard and remember, they are 370 grains is weight. They should get good penetration and do a number on anything you want to poke a 1/2 inch hole through. I read on another forum where a person with an Omega was going to use them out west because they shot excellent out of his rifle with 100 grains of Pyrodex. (I think it was.. I'd better go back and check his post before I swear to it).

Then there are the Great Plains Conicals. They should shoot well out of the Omega... all you can do is put in the range time and try.

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I've read alot of contradictory stuff about what shoots well from the Omega's (powder, bullet, wad, no-wad), so the only thing I can do is try them all out. That's part of the fun of ML in my opinion, and why I bought one.

I have been searching the web everywhere for the No Excuses. Where can I buy these?

RE: I'm ready...
 

fillae

OK I am worried I just did a search for his web- site it didn't show - hopefully ssomebody that has delt with will have his address - I know it is on one of the computers at home I'll try this evening....

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http://members.aol.com/noexcusesb/page2.html No Excuse Conicals.

that link works... I just ordered a couple more boxes of them That White Rifle of mine eats them like candy. :D

RE: I'm ready...
 

Congrats on a great choice for your ML. I think
you will like it, and the way it performs. That
being said I can't tell you much about hunting
elk with big bullets. But if you are going to load
125-150gr.powder charges you might look at the
ballastics on either the 300gr. Barnes Expander
or the Hornady 300gr. XTP mag. These two will
scoot when loaded heavy. There are, as already
stated, some heavy bullet guru's on this forum
and they will be glad to help. Good Shooting &
God Bless Danny

RE: I'm ready...
 

From what I have read CO requires a full bore conical and knowing that the Omega has a fast twist I too will give the nod to a heavy conical. And it is funny I do, I have never needed to shoot them but have for fun. Good luck!

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Bullshop has .504 conicals ready to go from the NEI mould #373. Weighs about 480 grains. His prices are great.

You might want to use a Maxi-ball or Lee REAL to check your bore size. That is critical for buying the right conicals. Just run one into your bore, then push it back out from the breech - mic the top band of the bullet to get your readings. Max reading will be groove-to-groove (or possiblly less than groove-to-groove if your bullet doesn't fill them) and minimum reading will be land-to-land measurement. Land-to-land is the dimension you will need.

You would then want to try a bullet that is just at your land-to-land measurement or very slightly over that measure (maybe .001).. Bullshop has a number of sizing dies and can probably fix you up. TC barrels vary enough there is not much predicting which will fit your particular barrel best. IF you happen tohaveone of those barrels where the QLA is a bit off center, lead conicals aren't going to shoot worth a hoot. PowerBelts might still shoot okay though.

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/index.html Thing about ordering from a caster is that you need the true barrel measurement as previously indicated, need to specify material as pure lead, and I would recommend you choose his Speed Green lube if you are shooting subs or his #2 lube if you are shooting true black.

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Underclocked.. let me know how those conicals shoot... they sound interesting. AlthoughI just ordered a couple more boxes of No Excuse tonight and Dave said they would be on the UPS tomorrow..

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fillae - the salesman gave you a potent elk load. I use the same bullet -have tried 120 grains of FFg T7 as well as 130 grains of Pyrodex RS with good results. Both are accurate and will put elk on the ground with authority. It has enough penetration to break shoulders, but still expands fairly well on broadside rib shots. I use the MMP ballistic bridge sub base with this bullet. Could never get the lead bullet to group very wellwithout the base - at the magnum charge levels.

Eitherload, as you might imagine, has significant recoil. I'm sure the bullet will kill well with only 100 grains of powder. And you wouldn't need the sub base. Effective range will be reducedby 25% or so, though. May not be an issue it you hunt in heavier cover.

RE: I'm ready...
 

Thanks all. Great information. I will start out with the Great Plains and Maxi-Balls and go from there. If I can get decent groups from one of those two I think I will be set. I've heard that the Omega's do not shoot conicals great, so I may have to do what Underclocked suggested to find the right bullet. For now though, that's over my head. Weather permitting I'll hit the range on Saturday and do some testing.

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Roskoe - do you use the sub base without a sabot? I'm assuming so since you are from CO.

Sorry, that was a stupid question. Obviously you don't use a sabot with a full-bore conical.

RE: I'm ready...
 

The bullet itself is a full caliber flat point conical. The sub base it considered a "wad" - it's purpose is to insulate the base of the soft lead bullet from the heat/pressure of the magnum powder charges. This combination is CDOW approved - as is the Powerbelt. Neither are considered a sabot for regulation purposes. These loads, with the sub base, have shot very well in my Black Diamonds as well asmy Omega.

Incidently, this is the only bullet I have used in conjunction with the MMP sub base that has shot considerably better with than without. I tried several other lead conicals that shot the same or worse with the sub base. My theory is that the front of this sub base very closely matches the hollow base of the 410 Great Plains bullet. Other posters have reported using the sub base with hot sabot loads and noting an improvement, however. I think they were originally developed for use with smokeless loads in the Savage MLII.

RE: I'm ready...
 

A couple of other bullets you might want to try as an alternative: the 385 Buffalo bullet has a good reputation in this part of the world for elk hunting. They expand well and are usually found just under the hide mushroomed to about 1". This would be a good bullet to use in conjunction with anon-magnum charge of 100 grains or so.

Also, the 405 Powerbelt seems to have a good balance of penetration and expansion for elk sized critters. This is also a bullet that tends to shoot well at non-magnum charges.

Either of these bullets should have an effective range of 125 yards or so.