Hollow Points Or Solids
 

HP or Solids 240 to 300 gr. in sabot,which is the best in front of 100grains powder for deer.

Martinfaw

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Both will do the job if you put it in the right place but in that weight class I would lean towards the hollow point.The XTP's have sure killed their share of deer, but a pure lead projectile has been killing deer for many years also. I actually shoot both (not at the same time of course.. :D) I hunt one tree stand where the shots are close and I usually hunt with my Wolverine LK-II. I like to load that with 85 grains of Goex 3f and a 240 grain .452 XTP or a 250 grain Barnes Expander. Although I sure like the .458 300 grain HP that Sabotloader turned me on to. They shoot good and have a great hollow point to them. I think they will do well.

Long range shooting I like to load a spitzer point or Shockwave type bullet. Also I like conicals.

I guess what I am trying to say is, shot placement will make the animal yours. There are really a lot of good projectiels out there...

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

slow speed use hollow point, high speed the spitzer .longer ranges over 100 yards to 150, i would not use hollow point with high speed.i love the hollow point powerbelts in the t/c hawkins flint but i dont shoot over 80 yards at a buck and i shoot low charges in the 80/90 gr area .if i had a in-line, loaded hot , i would use a spitzer type bullet.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

martinfaw

Just my random thoughts on your question... I think of all the animlas that a simple old 30-30 type gun has dispatched in this world and it was done with a "solid" type bullet - no hollow points - no spire points - just a plain old flat nose bullet. So does a "solid" bullet work? - certainly does - and a lot of people still use them. Hollow points, I actually do not know when they were invented, but the high use of them has been a fairly recent thing, both for hunting and use against people. I am not sure how many people would use a HP against a dangerous animal though - that might be risky. The HP is designed to "open" sooner and with less velocity than the standard bullet. The HP probably is the an excellent bullet on thin skinned animals, when shooting a high velocity bullet at the thin skinned and even a skinny animal. It almost asures expansion in the animal before it exits. The HP does reduce BC but enhances expansion and hydrostaticdamage caused within the animal.

Just my 2 bits....

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Well I would have to side with sabotloader &
cayugad. The solids have their place, and have
taken many many animals. But I still like the
hollow-point configuration at 300gr. even on deer,
and in front of a 100gr. powder charge. I want
that hydro. shock with awsome terminal damage.
I shoot most of mine at 50yds or less. The solids
are good at 100-200 yd range. I believe when
scootin along in front of a 120-150gr. powder
charge.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

It's my understanding that hollow points came to be so that reliable expansion could be attained with pistol cartridges - that is, bullets traveling at lower speeds. With most rifles, this happens when the frontal area of the bullet - flat or pointed - strikes the animal. A hollow point bullet travelling at a high speed will often "blow up" - resulting in inadequate penetration and/or excessive tissue damage.
Since muzzleloaders were usually much slower than CF rifles, it made sense to use hollow points for reliable expansion. With the advent of ML's developing speeds approaching or equal to many CF rifles, it may be again preferred to use solids.

IM jaybe :)

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Agreed I have not had the chance to prove it but I think the flatpoint 265g Interlock from Hornaday would be deadly at todays speeds. With 120g of T7 in my Encore it hits as consistant as my .308 out to 100yds. Knowing it leaves the muzzle going as fast and straight as it does it's hard to spend the money on the specialty bullets. ( I do anyways lol always need something to shoot).

I figure the spitzers would be needed more out west than here in NH where seeing a deer or moose over 100yds is rare.

XTP's seem to hold their own accuracy wise out to 100yds as well. I just wonder if they are over driven in magnums? Any thoughts?

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

youre right on 30-30.the 30-30 bullet had a lot of lead on tip of bullet so it expaned more at lower velocity.todays SOLID bullets are solid.they have very little lead on tip BECAUSE todays guns shoot at high velocity.thats why i like the powrerbelt bullet so much in my hawkins flintlock.i can load the charge down say at 80grs. no kick, no flinching and better groups as i dont worry on the kick etc.to me its like shooting a .22 cal in my head with lower charge.most of bucks i shot were all under 80 yards.i am putting my maxi-balls to their final rest in hunting withetail deer.long time they have been my best friend on those bucks.they will be sadly missed. i am using roundballs for practice now and powerbelts for deer. take care.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

your right too. never use a hollow pointwith high velocity.it will blow up.in inline with hot load, i would NEVER use hollow point bullet.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

So what is considered high velocity? I was shooting TC's 240 grain xtp bullets with 100 grain of ffg T7. Was this dangerous? I had no idea untill I read this post.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

a light hollowbullet at high velocity is explosive.a heavy hollowbullet at high velocity is not as explosive.if we are talking muzzleloader bullets.if your 240 gr xtp are not hollow point,i dont think problem but many here are better at that than me.being i am somewhat a person who has seen many deer killed with many bullets of diff weights/velocity.i am talking only whitetail deer.we never had choice of bullets we do today in muzzleloaders.i only use flintlock.i would not use a hollow point bullet in a in-line if it is shooting at high velocity of the in-line. again , i am not expert only what i would do. in the flintlock,loaded low charges which i LIKE. best bullet i feel out there is the HOLLOW POINT POWERBELT.295 and up.what a bullet for the flintlock hunters. i am retiring my maxi-balls now. may they rest in peace, ha.take care.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Racks-According to Twangers chart.240gr/100gr 777= 1850fps. I have shot a good number of deer with this load with great results.

Charlie

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

The only problem I see is if they are over driven into big game. Same thing I feel with the powerbelts. The XTP is made to be driven at .44mag velosities.

We have now exceeded that with our modern m/l so we need to look more for a high speed rifle bullet. The fp Interlock I shoot will go through 1/4 plate steel pretty clean. Close to what a .308 will. XTP's leave the shell behind and make a smaller hole. I am sure the lead is sprayed beyond that as well..

I know it has nothing to do with game but I find it fun and interesting to look what bullets do to steel.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

on our rifles ,slow ones, we always used bullets with a lot of lead on tips,on high powered rifles like a 7mm rem mag,we would use heavy weights and little lead on tips of bullet.if not, you would blow the other side of deer away.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

racks-n-beards: I may be wrong, but I think I may have used a couple of words that misled you. The words were, "blow up"; sproulman used the word, "explosive".That is speaking of the terminal performance of a light-jacketed bullet driven at high velocities when it hits the animal. It doesn't mean it's dangerous to the shooter or the weapon.
As has been mentioned, XTP's are a well-constructed jacketed hollow point bullet that can withstand the velocities produced in a magnum handgun (44 mag. for example), and also the velocities produced by approx. 100 grain ML charges. It's when the charges start going over 100 grains or so, and the velocities begin approaching 2400 fps or so, that most holow point bullets will start to go to pieces ("blow up") when they hit an animal the size of a hog, a deer or larger. There are probably exceptions to this, and your results may vary. From all I've heard and read, a 240 gr XTP ahead of 100 gr T7 is a very good load for whitetails. It should give good penetration AND good expansion.

IM jaybe :)

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Part of what had me thinkg was seeing the loads in the beginning of this post as well. They were all under 90 gr that i had seen.

Thanks for clarifying it.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

I just received an e-mail from an old hunting
buddy. He has just returned from Texas where
he took a nice wild hog. He said 267lbs. After
reading some of these post again I e-mailed him
to asked what he used. T/C Omega 50cal. 150gr.
stick form Shockys Gold, 300gr. Hornady XTP mag.
He says at 60yds it broke both front shoulders &
sprayed blood out the exit side. So maybe the
XTP'S will hold up to a magnum charge in the right
situation. Danny

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

It occurs to me that maybethere is no perfect bullet. The best choice being the one that provides the terminal performance desired at the range and velocity that one expects for its impact with game. There is such a wide range of velocity between the Muzzle and thedistance some are now shooting, that finding one which performs the same everytime, it would seem,would be impossible. I never sling anything faster that 1650 fps and the loads I really like havemuzzle velocity in the 1300-1450 fps range.At Muzzle velocitiesbelow1400fps, I do like a solid pure lead hollow point. I think they are as close to perfect as one can get if shooting a slower load. As far as the 2100+ fps speeds, I haven't a clue, but I suspect that bullet manufactures do enough testing that they have determined the best arrangements for these speeds. I would probably lean toward a flat nosed rifle bullet with muzzle velocities exceeding 1900 fps.

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

pglasgow: I agree that there may be (is probably) no "perfect bullet" for every situation. And that's why I really appreciate seeing a report like aquatech gave us. It's good to know that someone has had good performance with a 300 gr XTP mag. ahead of a 150 gr load. Sounds like it had good penetration also. This takes it out of the realm of THEORY and brings it right to where we live.
The one question I have: is there a difference between the XTP MAG and the "regular" XTP?

IM jaybe :)

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

All bullets are designed to work at certain velocity ranges if you can look up on the net or contact the maker and take the velocity it is designed for into considerationwhen making this type decision it will help. Lee
PS I though solids refured to the bullets that are completely jacketed and designed for dangerous game or very large game where extereme penatration is needed?
Lee

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

I think you're right, Lee. The term "solids" is usually used to describe jacketed bullets that have no exposed lead on the front. But for the purpose of this particular question, I think the thread starter meant solid lead flat point vs hollow point.
Now that I think of it, Powerbelts may use the term, "solid" to describe their solid lead bullets to distinguish them from their HP's.
NOPE - I was wrong - just checked it out, and their only "solid" bullet is their Dangerous Game bullet which has a solid steel tip.

IM jaybe :)

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

You know, I haven't a clue. Like you, I appreciateaquatech's report. As much as it may have seemed, i wasn't at all responding to his comments. The jacket of the XTP appears to be more than sufficient to hold it together at higher velocities of magnum charges, it just seemed to me, though I am probably wrong, that maybe a rifle bullet is better at rifle velocities, at least better ballistically. As I said, I don't know, I would just "lean" that way were I to sling them above 1900 fps.

Just throwing out 2 cents, thats all.

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Phil: I only gave that information as food for thought.
I do like the XTP'S though, even if they are not a
rifle bullet. That being said, I agree that maybe one
mans "perfect killing projectile" may be another mans
"nightmare" that won't even print on paper. I guess
I'm just old school but I do like to throw a big rock:D
at whatever I'm hunting. I understand terminal
velocity, hydro-shock FPS, and I like to try different
theory's. We never know what our limits are, if we
don't try. Being a Viet Nam vet I've seen what several
different projectiles will do to different things, water
buffalo, the human body, coconuts, spyder monkeys.
As far as pushing the limits with powder charges, I
will not I just like the 100gr. charge but it was nice
to have a fellow hunter & friend, relate that the
bullet/powder combination I shoot will take the 150gr.
charge. Good shooting & God Bless........Danny

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Hey Danny,

I honestly don't see anything wrong with XTP's with magnum charges, even if though arebeingpropelled atrifle velocities. The terminal performance is going to be there, there is no doubt about that. It is likely that they will generally discharge more energy in game than a rifle bullet. So there must be situations (actually most real life hunting situations of range less than 100 yards), like your friends, where an xtp would be preferable over a rifle bullet.

My leanings were only from this perspective. If I propelled a bullet at 1900+ fps, I would be looking to harvest game in the 150+yard range. In which case, I would probably select a .458 rifle bullet to do that job. It just happened that mypost followed yours and I clicked the reply in your post to enter my own post. So my post in no way expresses disagreement that an xtp is an appropriate choice of projectile at those velocities.

You make a great point in that onefirst has to find a projectile whichshootsprecisely.Even if one wanted to use a rifle bullet, but couldn't get them to print adequately, givenxtp's were printing adequately, what choice would one have, or even I have, but to choose the xtp for hunting?

Happy Hunting, Phil

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

i agree too. i am from old school with a lot of nice buck i got with muzzleloader over 40 years at it.when the maxi-ball .370 was allowed here in pa.a big difference was seen in getting a buck. roundballs were not right bullet for hunting with .50 cal tc hawkins.too many things you had to do to make it work right.first, you had to load hot.second, you had to make sure you had clear lane to shoot a buck.3rd, harder to load on second shot and if done wrong, ball would go off target.this is because most are 1 day hunters then and did not practice. if you practiced a lot,things were fine but you still had to know your limits.along came .370 gr maxi-ball. easy to load, real accurate,breaks brush in laural,more knock down than roundball if buck not hit in the kill zone. at 5 minutes till dark, thats a GOOD FEELING .now, on comes the POWERBELT. wow, what a bullet for the hawkins flintlock.easy to load,hollow point,you can load DOWN your gun not up to kill a buck,better accuratcy do to the bullet design and LOWER charge as you dont flinch.that last one alone will make you a much better shooter with a hawkins flintlock.my hawkins .50 cal with 80 grs of 2f with powerbelt .295/348 is like shooting a 22 cal to me.thats secret.that hollow point does not need high velocity to open up.most shots i take are UNDER 80 YARDS on the buck here in pa.i dont own in-line but if you are loading hot charges to try to get bullet to shoot 150 yards etc, i would NOT use a hollow point bullet on deer.if i diid i would use the heaviest bullet in powerbelt i could get so it does not go into pieces.my favorite in a hawkins flintlock is 295/348 powerbelt. what a bullet .

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

I guess its what ever works for you, I took my two bucks this year with a 230 gr. XTP in front of 150 gr stick form APP with my 26 inch barrel System One both were hit broadside both at real close to 30 yds took the top off both of their hearts one ran 30 yds the other dropped like the rug had been jerked out from under him. Wanted the bullets and tried to figure where they hit after exiting but did not have any luck. Proably keep right on using that load in the System One it holds 1.5 if no wind @100yd, just too bad the Omega don't like it. Just in case some one is interested my old Chrony says 2250 for the load but since I have a favorite spot to hit and they pass through I can't tell much about what they look like. Lee

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Yes, there is a difference between reg. STPs & STP Mags. I have loaded 300 gr XTPs for my 44 mag for a long time. They are good bullets but they are designed to operate at 1800 fps or less. I tried shooting them into wet newspaper, at 1400 fps, and the jacket came off and thebullet broke up somewhat. I fired a Gold Dot ,270 gr, and the GD definately held upbetter than the HTP (they are bonded and have the hollow cavity filled with lead producing a flat point).

The XTP Mags are supposed to hold up more like a bonded bullet--- I havet't tried them but it sounds like they worked very well on that hog.

RE: Hollow Points Or Solids
 

Well correct me if I am wrong but in order have a rule of thumb we need to define some terms. Now to me a high power rifle shoots a stremlined bullet at around 3,000 fps or quite often more, a medium power rifle shoots a some what less stremline bullet some times like for a tube magazine but not always and usually shoots in 2,300 to 2750 range and beow that are the muxxle loaders pistols and rimfires in more or less that order.
We chronographed a friend of mines Kentucky rifle at 2200 with a round ball before we ever heard of inlines or black powder substitutes so shooting over 2,000 is nothing new its just that nobody used to make a big deal out of it. Lee