I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

I've been shooting percussion lock rifles my whole muzzle loading career. Now
I have an urge to try my luck at the flintlock way of life. I found a Lyman
Trade rifle that will fit my budget. I wanted to askyou guys a few questions
before I made a purchase. 1st, Can I use Pyrodex P in the flash pan for an
ignition powder? I have some old Goex FFg I could crush maybe, but I doubtit wouldeven shoot. 2nd, How often do you have to change the liners at the touch hole, and for whatreasons would I have to change them? Should I order an extra liner with the gun? 3rd, Do you know what size flints the Lyman's use? Is thereone type or brand of flint preferred one over the other? How longwill a flint lastonaverage. Anything else
you think I should know, I'd be glad to hear it.

Thanks,
Blown Smoke

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Unfortunetly I don't own any flinters, but a poster on here once said it was nearly impossible to find ffffg in Alaska so he's crushed a little ffg to fill the bill. As long as you're crushing real black powder and not a substitute you shouldn't have a problem. Sorry man, that's about all the help I can give you regarding flinters. But I too am looking into one of those, so keep us posted!

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

No...and it won't work as a main charge in a Flintlock either...need real black for reliable performance in a Flintlock.
Unless the powder itself is contaminated, it should work fine...take a 35mm film canister and fill it half full of 2F, put a lead ball in it, hold the cap on tight and shake it back and forth 15 seconds, look at it, shake more if you need to, etc.
Thousands of shots; Yes, a spare for any critical part is always handy in case it's lost during cleaning, etc.
Flints are ordered based upon the width of the frizzen...measure yours...I think it'll be a 3/4" but check to be sure;
Black English Flints are without question the best flints;
(Order 25 or 50 bulk bags from October Country for best price)
I average 40-60 shots per 3/4" BEF in my TC Flintlocks without really doing much to them but cleaning them during the range session...if I knapp them a few times I can nurse them along and have gotten as many as85-95 shots.
Strongly suggest you order someGoex 3F...is actually a little faster than 2F andproduces alot less fouling...also, when you place the order, you can include one can of 4F for priming...and get a"pan primer" with a 3 grain plunger/dispenser tip...they areexcellent for the TC and Lyman size pans, metering exactly 3 grns each time, and filling the pan only half full which is what you want...(keep the prime below the touch hole)...at 3grns per shot, and 7000grns in a pound, one can of 4F will produce about 2300 primes/shots.

MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE:
Bore cleaning, drying, andlubing steps must be done to the 100% level every time or you will have problems.

I think in terms of putting a rifle away in showroom condition every time...a dozen and a half TC Hawkens over the past 15+ years, still look like new...you canafford to take time.....(weeks/months/years).....to learnall the odds and ends about shooting and hunting withFlintlocks.

Butyou can begin losing abarrel inhours if the bore isnot 100% cleaned, then 100% dried, then 100% coated with lube after it's been fired...both Flintlocks and Caplocks.

Enjoy!

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

roundball,

Do you fire a fouling shot in a flintlock to remove any remaining oils
in the leftbore before loading the main charge and taking your first
shot? Like we do with our caplocks. Or do you use an alcohol patch
or something for this?

You did a super job of helping me with this, and I really appreciate it.
"Thanks Big Time";)
Blown Smoke

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

[/quote] No, and when they tell you other powders such as Pinnacle will work.. well they will ignite but not dependable. Like roundball said. If you want the rifle to fire, get some black powder. Goex, Kik, Swiss, (leave the elephant alone IMO) are all good powders. I've heard Grafs/Wano powder is good also.

If your old Goex was kept dry, it might surprise you. It would work as a main charge and probably work good. As for crushing it, well it could work, it might even work as the main pan flash, but I would get some Goex 3f or 4f for the pan.

I bought a new liner when I got my Trade Rifle. I got a RMC hex head vent liner because I remove mine when I clean the rifle and the hex head is much easier to get in and out over the standard slot screw driver vent liner.. http://www.rmcsports.com/catalog.htm .

I get the 3/4 inch Thomas Fuller Black English flints. They were what Roundball recommended and so that is what I use. If there is a flint lock problem that is the person to talk to. I get them from October Country in bulk. You get a better price.

I have had some of the flints last for 40 shots or more. I have had others last for only 15 shots. I am not a master in the art of Knapping Flints and admit this. If I were better at knapping I would get more shots out of them. I use a Mizzy Wheel to shape my flints. (until my dremel tool burned out [:@]! )

Well get a vent pick at the same time. Also a frizzen cover, it acts as a safety for me. If your getting a Trade Rifle I like the .54 caliber just because of the caliber. I bought mine from D&R Sports and got a real good price from them. http://www.dnrsports.net/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=DSC&Cat egory_Code=muzzleloaders

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

not knocking lyman, never handled one, seen a few .when i go to range with say, 15 other shooters,i lay my T/C HAWKINS .50CAL FLINTLOCK on my sand bag.its like E.F.HUTTON ,ha. everyone stops talking and looks. most get a nasty look on their faces.why, well, i will let you be judge of that.today, most people have to show off to live.thats life today. i never did but i am from the OLD SCHOOL.it does feel good in one way when people look at you with that look on their faces, drolling, wishing, dreaming,that they had a TC HAWKINS.i have seen that look for 35 years now.i paid 119 for my hawkins new in 1971.it is still gauranteeded.all those years.i am not knocking any flintlock, cheap or expensive but you will most likely have flintlock the rest of your life.TC HAWKINS .50CAL is expensive, around 600 new.but a very nice FEELING, LOOKING,SHOOTING gun.back in 1971, i had pick of about 10 different muzzleloaders .i knew NOTHING about the guns, nothing. i stood at rack and pulled all 10 off,put them to my shoulder.guess what, the only one that FELT good and balanced was the TC HAWKINS. that was it. i know of where there is a used .50cal hawkins in great shape for 350 dollars but they may take 300.if you are interested,pm me. take care.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Thanks cayugad,

I can't get in the D&R sports site. Something about "miva" wont let
me in. I'm looking at one at the possible shop for $299. Does that
sound reasonable forthis typeflinter?

I guess I'll try a .50 cal this time as I don't own one, and I already
have 2 .54 cals. But I'll probably sell one of those if I getthis gun.
As I have too many guns now& the wife is starting to fuss.

Blown Smoke

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

I think at D&R The Trade Rifle Flintlock was around $243.00 as I remember. I just checked my records and I paid $242.97 for the .54 caliber Lyman Trade Rifle so my guess was pretty close. Also if you think it would be worth giving them a call their phone number is;570-735-1752. I think their site is under construction right now. They were real good people to deal with and I have bought a lot of stuff from them. It would save you $50.00 .

You can never have too many guns. :D

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Absolutely not...I sight in a rifle from a squeaky clean/lubed bore, just like it will be for the shot when I'm hunting...I just dry patch out any excess bore butter from the last heavy lubing, and load the rifle.

UsingNatural Lube 1000I don'tget the different POI'sfrom one shot to the next...I shoot40-50 shot range sessions on Saturday mornings with Goex 3F and unless it's a rare dry winter day,never have towipe between shots,and all 40-50 shots shoot just like the first one.

To me, it makes no sense to go to all the trouble of getting a rifle spotless, then shooting a "fouling shot" to dirty it up to go sit in the woods all day with a dirty rifle...IMO, if a person is having different POI's from 1st shot to 2nd shot, then they need to figure out aclean, logical way to correct it...ie: find a lube or something that gives shot to shot consistency.

My .02 cents...

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

I use an alcohol patch as swab the gun oil out of the barrel. Another patch with some alcohol to wipe the pan out and the frizzen and flint off before I prime the rifle.

There really is not a different POI too much with traditional roundball. I find that more of an issue with sabots.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

While at the Harrisberg Sports show "RMC" (Rightnour mfg. company) had a stand there. They had some really nice flintlocks for under $500. They had all the options like fiber optic sights, metal rod with with fold down T-Handle, plus the breach plugcould be unscrewed forbarrel cleaning. I think they also use Green Mountain barrels.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

I would love to own Flintlock... My friends and I were at Harrisburg last Feb 4th and 5th. Boy ... that place is soooooo HUGE!!! I was drooling around the RMC booth. I saw their flinklock and you are right they have nice sets of flintlock... Wish I have alot of $$$ and spend on those guns! [:@]... I end up brought beech brush which was $2.29. I am too cheap! :eek:

Dale

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Don't overlook the used market...you can find some clean mint condition TC Hawkens for $250-$325, and with TC's very real, lifetime warranty, regardless if original owner or not, a used TC is the best, lowest risk, used muzzleloader you can buy.

A TC Hawken is a high quality, attractive,reliable, accurate rifle, made by anAmerican company in New Hampshire, with a warranty second to none...various calibers...1:48" twists for conicals & round balls, and 1:66" twists for round balls only...hard to beat.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Roundball,

When I am settling down and have enough $$$ then I will shop around and buy Flintlock... Thanks for advice! I will reply here when I am ready to buy one. :D

Thanks again...

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Lyman Trade Rifle .50 Cal Flintlock Report.


I have just now had clear enough weather to get out and try this rifle out.
Although it's still kinda windy out, I got tired of waiting on mother nature
to behave. This was the first time I held a flintlock in my hands much
less shot one. When the rifle got here the first thing I did was to clean
it real good right out of the box. I swabbed the bore with gun solvent and
let it set overnight as recommended by the manufacture. The next day I
gave the barrel a good hot water scrubbing then dried it and swabbed it
with bore butter while it was still hot. The rifling at the muzzle on this rifle
seems awful sharp. It scratches the ramrod up pretty good when using it.
Is this normal for these rifles?

When I went to assemble the gun, the wedge pin was too thick and
caused the wedge pin slot on the barrel rib to bind against the ramrod.
So I used a dremel tool with a fine sanding wheel to remove a little from each side of the wedge pin till it had a good fit. The barrel is still tight in the stock, and the ramrod moves in and out freely now. The flint edge wasn't matching squarely across the frizzen, so I had to readjust the flint. Everything looked to be ready for the range now.

I had read on this forum and a few others where a few guys were having
trouble flinching from the pan flash. So before loading a main charge, I shot a few pan charges threw it just to familiarize myself with it. The pan flash didn't really bother me (actually I thought it was kinda neat) but the "clack" from the cock hitting the frizzen was a distraction for me till about the third shot.

My son (17yrs old) went out to the range with me and we got setup to do some shoot'n. I loaded up with 60grs of Goex 3F an .010 patch lubed with bore butter and a .490" RB. I primed the pan, cocked, took aim, and squeezed the trigger and Ka_Boom! A hole punched through the target and dirt from my backstop flew 20ft in the air. My son's statement standing behind me was "Holy Cow" He couldn't wait to shoot it, and he actually shot it better than I did overall.

We had several misfires at first due to I wasn't getting enough powder in the pan. I finally figured out to prime the pan level full and it cured the misfire problem. We had one other misfire when the flint had wore down some.

We shot 60, 65, and ended the day with 70grn powder loads. I couldn't tell much difference in the grouping between these loads. I think a thicker patch may help though. Maybe some of you guys can advise me on this. I've got some 320grn R.E.A.L. bullets I want to try in it next time out.

All 'n all though, we had a blast shooting it and if I can get the grouping to tighten up a bit, I'll take this "ole boy" to the woods this fall.;)

This is the last target we shot just before dark. The lower left 3 holes were my son's shots. And the other 4 holes were mine. The upper patches are of the ball side and the lower are of the charge side.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

your burnt patches do not look bad since you mentioned you had a sharp rifling in the bore. I mean they are not all shredded. As for the accuracy, for the first time you ever used a flintlock I would say you did real good. I have a Lyman Trade Rifle and it is a lot of fun to shoot. In fact I think I will shoot it tomorrow...

Keep it up, it only gets better. Mine is a .54 caliber and my load is 90 grains of 2f and a .530 patched ball. The accuracy is excellent. I use 4f in the pan and from the pan priming flash, one push is enough on the outside of the pan to get an almost instant ignition...

Keep us posted.. It sounds like you and your son are having a great time.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Thanks for the encouragement cayugad,

We really didenjoy shooting it. The only drawback I see with it is,
you can't run out to wal-mart and pick up flints for it.

I noticed the 4F powder kinda stuck to the inner walls of the priming
flask when I filled it. And I feel like it was sticking in the spout also
because I would have to take my index finger and tap the spout
against the pan to get the powder out. I don't know if static would
cause thisor not. I guess between this and the wind blowing we were
lucky to get it toshoot at all.

What size patching material are you using with your .530 RB?
Have you shot the R.E.A.L.'s in your 54, and did you find it
necessary to use a wad with them?

Hope the shoulder is better, and have a good day outshooting the 54.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

The shoulder is much better thanks..

As for that 4f sticking, I have never ran across that yet. I have a small brass priming flask I keep filled and then refill out of the pound can when needed.

Patching material is .015-.018 100% cotton pillow tick. I buy the materal at Wal Mart, wash it, line dry it and tear strips off as needed. I use moosemilk for a lube and that combination works real good.

Yes, I have shot R.E.A.L. conicals and it did real good with them with or without a wad. I only loaded 80 grains of 2f and shot no further then 50 yards. Sometimes, R.E.A.L.s will loose their accuracy when you get too far back. I will discover that in the spring. Another real surprise was when I shot some Powerbelts out of the Trade Rifle. I pushed them with 90 grains and the accuracy was exceptional.

Minnies were as usual, a real disappointment. I really would like to find one of my rifles that shot them as well as I demand. With their size, there is little that they could not stop. I just can not get hunting accuracy with them. One or two will shoot perfect and then next one will be 10 inches out of the bull. So how can you depend on a minnie when you do not know if this is the flyer or not.

The way my rifle shoots roundball though, I would take that hunting tomorrow without flinching. It is really accurate with the roundball and the reason I went with the .54 was to get the extra power for hunting that a round ball delivers in that caliber.

As Roundball about the powder problem. If anyone would have experienced it, he would. He is my go to person when I have a roundball question. Also I get my Thomas Fuller Black English flints at October Country. If you buy them in bulk they are much cheaper. Since I have not learned to knapp worth a hoot, beleive me, I go through the flints.

Keep us posted with your rifle. They sure are a well made rifle...

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Look around and you can find good deals. I found my Renegade in very good shape for only $150 and I love the rifle.

Holy cow if I knew how much fun rocklocks were I would have bought one years ago.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

first time and shooting 50 yds, real good.i would shoot no further than 25 yds and make your target real small,like size of a small bore .22 caltarget in black.start at 60 grs of 2f up to 75 grs for target.if i can see the small target on a big white cardboard i will cover it with sight.if not, i hold right under it so i can see it clearly and shoot.dont worry about sighting in gun,you want to get best groups.i use bore butterwhich makes it easy to shove the roundball down barrel .i swab down barrel after 5 shots with alcohol patch then more bore butter.getting that roundball in center of patch, i feel is necessary. but , i never got real good groups with a roundball out of my hawkins .50 cal t/.c but ,maybe with more practice i can. wind and shooting 50 yards is tough and you did real good.stay with 25 yards and then move out to 50 when you get good groups and you feel you are steady enough and can see good. remember, bigger thebullseye the wider the group of shots. smaller the bullseye the tighter the groups. this is what i have seen in over 36 years shooting a muzzleloader.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Thanks for the report cayugad,

I got to thinking about the 4f powder sticking in the flask problem
last night. The priming flask just came on a card with no instructions.
So it came to me, that they may have used some type of light oilor
lubricant on the spout to keep it from seizing up during storage.
So I dumped the powder out on a paper towel, and washed the flask
good in alcohol and now letting it dry. We'll see ifthat helps.

My wife works at wal mart, and she is suppose to bebringing some of the
blue stripe pillow ticking home tonight. I'll try it and see if it helps my
roundball grouping. Is there any difference between the (Red and Blue)
stripe pillow tick?

What type of lube were you using with the Minnies? (Soft or Tacky)
Just curious is all.

RE: I'm thinking of getting a flintlock.
 

Thanks sproulman,

That's some great advice. I use to put my front sight dead on the
target to shoot,but my eyes won't let me do that now. Especially
at 50yrds. So I'm trying to get use to putting the target on top of
the front sight nowdays. The target above should have been 3-1/4"
across. "Sorry I typed thatin wrongon the pic"What I was doing
therewas, following the post upand putting thecat head on top of
my front sight and using the gap between the ears as guide for center.
I can seethe gap at a distancebetter than a scope line on the more
modern targets. Works for me anyway.

When we go back out to the range we'll setup at 25yrds this time.
That fifty yardswas kinda hard to pull off, but the shooting table
was already there from shooting some of my other riflesand we
were in kind of a rush to shoot that day. We waited till late afternoon
for the wind to die down, but it didn't cooperate as usual. We were
swabbing the bore about every third shot. I may swab more often
next time out and just see ifthathelps too.

Really appreciate the help!

Here are thetargets I've beenusingif anyonewants totry them
just for fun.

Small Target
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/777ffg/Blackcat.jpg

Large Solid
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/777ffg/Blackcattarget5.jpg

Large White Center
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/777ffg/Blackcattarget2.jpg