I WAS SURPRISED?
 

had some free time, so i thought i would measure blackpowder.i know its said you should use volume measures that we buy for loading but i used them then poured it in my POWDER SCALE to weigh.i started at 50grs.in measure, it showed 50 and 1/2 gr.this may have been my scale was just a hair off.i then went up to 100grs. in measure, poured it in powder scale, and here was results.60grs was 60 and 1/2,70grs was 70 and 1/2,80grs was 80 and 1/2,90 grs was 90 and 1/2,100grs was 100 and 1/2. i did this over and over trying to see if my reading would change.they did not.I WAS SURPRISED how close powder scale was to the powder measure.i did notice if i tapped the side of the POWDER MEASURE ,the powder scale reading would be a full 1 gr above the amount, say like 50 grs in measure ,tapped, was 51 grs in the POWDER SCALE.this was with 2f of geox.i see no problem weighting your charges with 2f on a POWDER SCALE .anyone like to comment .thanks

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

Powder can certainly be weighed but I guess mycomment is why would you want to?

Usually the main attractionof getting into muzzleloading is to learnand master the shooting & hunting tachniques used with muzzleloaders the way our ancesters did back in the early American traditional muzzleloading era.
(however, somedon't, preferring instead to use modern high pereformance scoped inlinesjust to take advantage of the specialhunting seasons established by/for the traditional muzzleloader hunters)

Real blackpowder's whole history is based upon using "volumetric" charges...weighing powder charges would not be somethng the typical settler would have done...doubt theycould have even if they'd wanted to given the lack of precision scales, etc...and lastly,there's really no measureable benefit to doing it....

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

youre right, as usual.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

Don't get me wrong...this isn't a right or wrong hobby...you had asked for comments and I simply responded with my view of things...you can surely weighpowder charges if you want to.

I spent a lot of years weighing/sorting/mic-ing powders/bullets/cases for handloading centerfire cartridges, but when I got into traditional muzzleloading I left all that modern mentality over on the other side of the garage at that reloading bench...just enjoying a grand old form of shooting Flintlocks with real black powder and patched round balls...and for me, Idon't want to modernize it
:D

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

hope you did not think i was getting smart, only was COMPLEMENTING YOU,is all.after i read ,why would you do it,youre right. some like to load their powder in film canisters and take to range to shoot so they dont have to measure it there.some only shoot say, 20 shots and use film canisters at home.i only brought this up because a few said YOU CANT WEIGHT POWDER CHARGES FOR BLACKPOWDER. i say, you can and was surprised, is all.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

I agree with roundball! Scales are nice if you live a long life using the same bullet & powder charge. But that gets boring in a hurry! In the three years that I have owned my Omega, I have successfully sighted-in six completely different bullets & weights DUE TO BOREDOM & a perfect excuse to tell the wife that I must leave here for an afternoon to sight-in one of my many rifles.[:@][:@]

I surely do not want to take scales with me to the range to work on powder charge loads.... especially with a wind that exceeds 5-10 MPH ;);)

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

RB, that is the best paragraph I've read in a LONG LONG time. When I started hunting with a flint 3 years ago, I got myself a T/C Firestorm with the sythentic stock and the stainless barrel...and I can honestly say I now regret it. I wish I had a wooden stocked, hooked breech, brass and blued, smoke thrower. Muzzleloader hunting is about hunting like our forefathers did, not with new technology. I'm am now saving up my money to get myself a T/C .50 cal Renegade Flinter.

Thats one reason I love PA. They have a flintlock with iron V-notch sight muzzleloader season. PA is keeping the tradition alive.

GOOD JOB RB!!!

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

No I didn't think that...I was just clarifying further bacause I wanted to be sure you didn't take my post as being "critical" of you.

Yes,I've premeasuredpowder charges into 35mm film canisters for 15 years...I don't weigh them, I just fill the powder measure then pour into a canister, fill 50 canisters per charge...have a large ziploc bag filled with with each different charge...40/50/60/70/80/90/100grns Goex...then all stored in a large heavy duty plastic sealable tub...then no matter what caliber I'm shooting that day, I have a bag of charges ready...in the July & August heat & humidity here, I don't waste a minutemore atthe range than I have to...I leave home in the dark, start shooting at first light, get back home inside the garage by 10:00am before the H&H gets too high.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

Interesting results sproulman. I will have to weigh a few on my digital scale sometime in the future and see what I come up with. I know when I weighed out Triple Se7en, I was kind of surprised at the results I got. Thanks for posting your results. It is something I can compare my findings to.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

Not responding to anyone in particular, just babbling:

BP volume powder measures are designed/calibrated to throw the same actual weight of BP...ie: a 100grn measure of BP is 100grns weight of BP.

TheBP Subs are usually a different weight...they're designed PHYSICALLY to take up the same amount of volume even though 100grn measure of Pyrodex RS only weight 72 grns or something.

Energy wise, it still equals the 100grn thrown charge of Goex...I assume otheres like 777 will weigh differently toobut they're all benchmarked against a volume measurement.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

To be clear, I'm not a 'purist'...don't have expensive custom guns that are supposed to be "period specific" and all that...but I do use TC Hawken Flintlocks, realBP, black English flints, and patched round balls...hunting has never in my life been as rewarding as it has beenfor the past four years...first Flintlock squirrel was about as big a deal as the first Flintlock buck!

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

its hard to think that a VOLUME measure would be so close to being precise compared to powder scale on geox 2f.that was a SURPRISE too me.its hardto think that you pour in your powder in a MEASURE ,dump it in a scale pan, weight it and it is almost within tenths of gr.close to powder measure reading .that was a surprise to me, for sure.i expected to see like maybe 2 ,3 4 gr. diffference in my POWDER SCALE reading compared to powder measure.that never happened.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

I understand this.. I was just surprised at how when I measured a volume weight of 100 grains ofTriple Se7en 2f, it weighed out at average, 68 grains. I would have guessed it would have been a little more then that. I just find it interesting.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

cayugad, now that is interesting too, i learned something there.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

Well due to a different post, I went and read the instructions again on the scale and found out there is a "g" for grams I am guessing, and then there is a grains setting. I was not using the right setting I think.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

Here is data on weighed charges
http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics2.html

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

interesting reading...thanks for the post.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

Cayugad, your scale was on the right setting. 1 gram = 15.5 grains so if the scale was on grams you would have got a reading of like 5-6g's when you put 70-90 grains on there. You would havenoticed a problem right away.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

I think the data tables are reversed for FFFg vs FFg at this web site:

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics2.html

All my APP type powder FFFg wieghs Heavier than FFg.

I also tap my powder measure till it won't hold any more. My findings are:

Trip7 FFg
.80 x grains by volume = Trip7 FFg Actual Wieght

.80 x 80gbv = 64gaw
.80 x 100gbv = 80gaw
.80 x 120gbv = 96gaw



APP/Gold/Pinnacle FFFg
.92 x GBV = FFFg Actual Wieght

.92 x 80gbv = 73.6gaw
.92 x 100gbv = 92gaw
.92 x 120gbv = 110.4gaw

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

i noticed under NOTE .it said that uncle mikes brass weighted a black powder 3f volume charge of 100 grs and it weighted 99.3 on the powder scale.i used my 35 year old THOMPSON/CENTER BRASS volume measure that goes from 50/120 grs. it was only .5 to 6 of a TENTH of a grain off from the volume measure.example, my 100 gr measured in the brass thompson was 100.5 in the powder scale. if i TAPPED the measure it was 101 gr with 2f.i was surprised it was not like 2 ,3.4 GRAINS diffferent than the powder measure. there is no reason to weight a charge ofGEOX 2F BLACKPOWDER USING THE THOMPSON BRASS VOLUME MEASURE.good articile, i learned.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

I hope I'm not overstating the obvious, but just so someone doesn't mis-understand, I'll say it::eek: :
Black Powder DOES weigh the same as it's volume in powder measures; it is the standard, and what powder measures were designed to measure.
Black Powder SUBSTITUTES do NOT weigh the same- they are heavier for the same volume.
As CAYUGAD said, a 100 grain VOLUME of 777 onlyWEIGHED 68 grains. It is not wise to WEIGH out 100 grains of 777 or other substitute and think it's a 100 grain charge. It is actually MUCH more!
On your can/bottle of BP Substitute, it will clearly say that it should be used BY VOLUME as a BP substitute. That infers (but doesn't say) that it should not be substituted by weight.
OK - I'm done - just didn't want anyone to get a big SURPRISE! :(

IM jaybe :)

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

everywhere i read said that you CANT weight a charge of blackpowder because powder is MEASURED by VOLUME not weight. thats why i was SURPRISED that geox 2f was so close to weighted charge vrs volume charge.so, i guess reading i was doing was WRONG or they were talking about the substitiute powders as you have said.they always said BLACKPOWDER not others. take care.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

YESS,

It just ain't necessary to weigh BP charges, if one isas consistent as you seem to be in throwing them with a volume measure. There'd be no benefit at all, because even a full grain difference in the charge weight of black powder will only cause a variation in velocity of around 30 FPS or LESS!

Since a load can have shot-to-shot variation of up to 150 FPS and still be accurate, there's just no reason to weigh the stuff.

RE: I WAS SURPRISED?
 

i agree.that 35 year old brass thompson 50-120 measure was very accurate,within .05 to .06 of a GRAIN .