TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

My wife was cleaning around on her Dad's house this weekend up in Missouri and ran across an interesting box under the bed in the spare bedroom. She came walking into the living room with the box and ask me what kind of gun was in the box. It was a .50 cal TC New Englander, still in the original box. Contents of the box werethe owners manual, a box of Hornady buffalo bullets,some speed loaders (that still had loads in them), a broken short starter,a broken ram rod, a handwritten bill of sale dated Dec 21, 1994 (from a yard sale),and some targets. The original price tag from a Gipson's store (anybody remember those stores?) was still stuck on the outside of the box. It originally sold for$249.95. My father-in-law said his son bought the gun at a yard sale in Maryland about 10 or 12 years ago and put it under the bed and it hasn't been touched since. He told me to take it home and I gladly accepted. That's the good news.

The bad news; it was never cleaned. I could see immediately that the gun was shot probably only 3 times. There were 5 bullets missing from the box.Two bullets were still in the speed loaders, so I figure the 3 that were unaccounted for were shot.The barrel was pitted with rust (but not real bad). The hammer was covered with rust. The nipple was completely covered in rust and clogged up, and the inside of the bore was completely covered too. To top it all off, the ramrod is broken off inside the barrel. Despite all the rust, the trigger is like new. It's really smooth. I still can't believe it. The stock is beautiful too. It's a great piece of walnut with lots of grain and a really nice satin finish. But...What the hell do I do about the ramrod?

Any comments in general about a TC New Englander 50 cal???

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I had a new englander, wish I still did. Haven't been on the T/C web site in awhile but they used to sell new barrels for 180.00

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike AR

Just a note of caution if the ram rod is broken off inside - there MIGHT even be an old charge in there - be careful...

It would be my suggestion to put the whole thing in a tub of hot water and let it stay there for awhile but yu attemp anything. Hopefully water will get in from ends the muzzle and the nipple if it is clear.

oops the bell just rang kids are coming - more later... but I think cayugad will get back before I am able...

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Looks like three options to me; (1) Send it back to T/C and ask them what the cost to fix is, (2) buy a drop in barrel for it and throw the original one away, (3) Sell it to me for $50.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Hmmmm - a broken ramrod in the barrel - that probably explains why they stopped shooting. Do you suppose there's still a charge and bullet in there, too? :eek:
Sounds like the best bet might be to get a new barrel and "deep six" the old one. If you decide to do anything else, make sure you treat it as loaded - for sure! Then, if you like a challenge, youmight try to see if the nipple can be removed first. Then dump some water in there to make sure any powder is neutralized before trying other means of removing the ramrod.

IM jaybe :)

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I did soak the barrelin hot soapy water. Ieventually was able to work a piece of safety wiredown through all the rust in the nipple and got a little rusty water to drip out. I tried several times to take the nipple out but wound up ruining my wrench. I blew some air through the nipple and got some nasty water to come out the muzzle. I then blew air from the muzzle end and got some soapy bubbles and water to pass through the nipple. I would say thatif there's a load in there, it's dead by now.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Good - so now it just comes down to whether you can salvage the barrel or not.

Good Luck - and have fun!

IM jaybe :)

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Soak the barrel and nipple in some sort of penetrating oil for a couple days. That will do a couple things.. it will loosen all the rusted parts, and kill any charge that might be in the barrel. If the barrel is in as bad a shape as you describe, it is probably no longer safe to shoot anyway.

Like sabot loader said, it could be a loaded barrel with not only a projectile but a busted ramrod on top of that...

I soak it then try and clear the barrel. After that I would get a green mountian barrel for it, and if necessary replace the lock and hammer. You have a good piece of wood and for about $200.00 could have a nice rifle...

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Thanks for all the replys. Cayugad, any suggestions on the type/brand of penetrating oil? Also, the barrel may not be quite as bad as I first stated. I was able to clean about the first 10 inches or so of the bore and it scrubbed up pretty good.I got it to shineand can see the riffleing. But, the problem may still be more serious the closer you get to the breech. I don't know and may never find out if I can't get out the ramrod.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike AR,
There's a .50ca. barrel on ebay now that would fit your New Englander.There's a little over a day left on the auction. It's at $26.00 right now. This is a T/C High Plains Sporter barrel and it's basicallythe same rifle except the HP Sporter has a pistol grip stock. This barrel will drop right in the New Englander stock.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7216102330&rd= 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Good Luck and keep us posted

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I always used some stuff called Liquid Wrench when something would not come loose, like the nipple. Almost any good oil will penetrate to some extent. Getting the ramrod out might be harder but I would get to a good air compressor. See if you can blow the whole works out after you get the nipple out....

If you're sure the barrel is finally clean, then I'd start with some J-B Bore Paste. I would see just how bad it really is. I was given a rifle in much the same condition are you have and although pitted it shoots great. I never push it more then 70 grains of Goex but with a roundball it is a good shooter.

If the barrel is shot, then you might try lapping the barrel and see what happens. At that point there is nothing to loose...

I'd look into that barrel Encoreman listed if it fit my rifle. That would be a good way to start the reconstruction project.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

cayugad,
This sounds like a job for "Kroil Oil" It's the best penetrating oil I know of.
Trying to blow the ramrod out with an air compressor is a very good idea. If he can get that nipple off and attach a 1/4-28 air fitting to the nipple threads, he just might be able to blow the dang thing out.
The last resort is to add a trickle of BP under the nipple and touch off a #11 cap, but you'd want to make sure the barrels in a vice and pull the trigger with a string. Nothing like a bomb going off to upset the neighborhood:D

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Your right... that Kroll Oil I just bought might be just the ticket. It says it helps to get out rusted stuck parts. Might actually have that figured out there Encorman. The air compressor should blow it out but I worry since he claimed to get some soap and water working through there just how air tight it is.

Shooting out the obstruction could be real dangerous if there is a load in the rifle. Plus if there is any hope of saving the barrel and there is a load in the rifle they would have to seat the projectile and everything else down as far as possible, but it might work.

Another out would be to send the barrel to Thompson Center with a WARNING about the possible load in the barrel and the over all condition of it. They could pull the breech plug and then push the entire load out. Maybe even a local gun smith could do the same thing...

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Cayugad,
You are absolutelycorrect that shooting the ramrod out could be dangerous even with a small amount of powder. My gun dealer did this once with a trickle of powder behind the nipple and it shot the stuck ballout and through his barn and into his outboard motor cover. He'll never do that again or at theleast he'llpoint it in a safer direction the next time.
He may not get a good enough seal to blow it out with an air compressor like you said, but I'd sure give it a try. And again point the muzzle in a safe direction.
I've always wanted an excuse to pull a breech, but glad that I haven't had too at least on my rifles.
We use Kroil Oil at work and it's the best as far as I'm concerned. A little heat maybe neede too.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike AR

Man it is lucnch hour and I was going to add a few things - but it certainly has been covered... The onlt thing I would add is treat the barrel with boiling water get it as hot as you can to expand it - then apply the compressor or even a co2 cannister built to go on the nipple. My compressors are set at 150#'s but I have had better luck with the simple co2 ejector.. blow it out when it is hot and wet to help seal the whole thing... How far down the barrel do you think the tip of the ram rod is? Is seated or partially down? If it is not seated all the way down there may be some other options to get some iniatal movement... before you blow it out...

Good luck....

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I'm assuming that the rod(along with a cleaning jag)is down pretty much asfar as it will go. I'm basing that assumption on the other part of the broken ramrod that was still in the box. When you put the two pieces together, there's about 2 inches sticking out the barrel. However, something else to throw into the puzzle, there was also a broken short starter in the box too. What are the chances that I've got a piece of short starter AND a piece of a ramrod down in there?

A new barrel on ebay is sounding pretty good right about now.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I would hope that if the short starter broke he just dumped it back out... I would really think you are dealing with just the ram rod... I am also thinking in those days the rr did not come with a cleaning jag, just a cupped end to allow the seating of a round ball. Again I am assuming the end in that you have probably does not have the cupped end on it. I can not remember if the original rods had a threaded female reciever in them to allow the installation of a jag. The other end did for a patch puller and bullet screw. It is possible he broke the rod trying to remover a projectile. Which end do you have?

And then of course your assumption that it stuck while cleaning is also a very viable one - which might help the other problem if he was cleaning it probably was unloaded

My only thought is if it were not seated you could inster a wooden dowel the size of the bore and strike it with a hammer to help break the contact of the rod to the barrel.

Another thought fill the barrel with penetrating oil (Kroll is anecellent product) from the muzzle stand it up in a bucket in the corner and walk away from it for a few days, then start the removal process again.

Actually I am glad it is not one of mine but I do find the whole process a challenge - and I do love mechanical challenges....

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I would guess this is what happened..

the prior owner used a short starter to load something thatFIT THE BORE TOO TIGHT. He broke the short starter trying to seat the projectilebut because he had the projectile by this time far enough down the barrel he could not reach it, he decided to DRIVE the projectile down the barrel with the ramrod and in the process broke the ramrod off in the barrel as well. He then got disgusted with the whole works, threw it back in the box it came in and tossed it under the bed.

Or he broke the short starter earlier and was swabbing the barrel and got the patch stuck in the bore. He then tried to pull the rod out somehow and snapped it off in the center. Rods used to break all the time when they had been made of wood. All it took was a flaw in the grain and that's where they would break.

If this was the orginalwooden rod, and when you put them togther, there is a brass end sticking out the end of the barrel as a combination of the two pieces, he could very well just have the rod stuck with a patch, in an unloaded barrel with it down near the breech. Or they might have loaded a projectile without powder and he was trying to pull the projectile when the rod broke, so down there is a projectile a ball puller, and no powder.

If that's the case, you could shoot the rod out. Once you get the nipple out, and your sure the inside of the barrel is dry, start packing powder into the barrel through the nipple hole. Use a nipple pick and pack it down there. Then when you have a couple grains in there, put the nipple back in, cap it, and shoot that thing off some place safe. Tie it to a tire and fire it with a string. The reason this is so dangerous is if a chunk of the rod broke off somewhere and it is not all the way down the bore and the rifle is loaded, you have a technical bomb there. Be far away from it when you set it off.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Cayugad,
You should have been a private investigator.....heck maybe you were or are. LOL
If he can get the nipple off with Kroil (not Kroll) see url: http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=11344&itemType=PRODUCT&a mp;RS=1&keyword=kroil

I'd think that a person could use a small water pickto flush out any powder that could be in the breech area, you could use an air hose too to aid in this process. After a good cleaning, I'd think that you'd be pretty safe that the main charge had been cleaned out.It might be a good idea to do this a couple of times to be certain it washed out. Dry it all out and then trickle a little powder down the nipple hole and touch it off with a #11 cap. Taking all the safety precautions mentioned in above posts.
I wish I had the barrel to play with....dang.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

The broken pieceI found in thethe box is the cupped piece.If I remember correctly, it looks just like one that I sawwitha Springfield Hawken about 20 years ago.I believe one end was cupped, the otherwasa tapered, threaded female piece, but I could be mistaken.Since the cupped piece is the piece in the box, I assume there's a female threaded end stuck in the gun with a worm or bullet puller or something else attached???

I'll start soaking this dude tonight when I get home and get some good oil. I'll take your advice and walk away for a couple of days, then try to get that nipple off. Shooting that rod out sounds exciting too!
Thanks again for the GREAT ideas. You know you guys could get on CSI...

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

ENCOREMAN


I wanted it first....

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike AR,
Here's another 50.cal. New Englander barrel listed on ebay. This one has 15hrs. left to bid on and is at $50.00 right now.
The High Plains barrel I gave you url in earleir postis identical to this barrel. I have both rifles and they are interchangeable....guaranteed
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7216953768&rd= 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Some guys have all the fun:D

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Get a replacement barrel for it. I dont know how much it would be but you could have that barrel bored out to a bigger caliber.:eek:

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

sabotloader,
I'd have to go back and read through all the posts to see if you spoke up 1st. LOL :D
It sounds to me now after reading the last thread from MikeARthat a bullet puller might have been used. If it was the type that didn't center it selfin the bore, it might have drifted off into the rifling....nasty [:o]

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

sabotloader,
Hey, I just had a brain f_ rt. Mike AR could buy one of the barrels listed on ebay and then turn around and list his barrel.
We could both bid on it to see who wants to play with it themost:D

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

ENCOREMAN

I concurr - but I am hoping it is a stuck patch and cleaning jag... If it is your assumption I am not to keen on shooting it out, but off the top of my head I do not have a good alternative. And again if your assumption is correct you are not going to blow it out either...

The breech plug removal is starting to sound better, but that is still my last resort.

If he can get the upper portion of the barrel clear enoughhe might be able to get enoughlight inside to see what might be going on, patch orprojectile....????

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

sabotloader,
I echo your thoughts and agree with you 100%

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike-I would give TC a call and see what they say.I tried to buy a Green Mountain barrel about a year ago,and they did'nt make one for the NE. What ever you do it is worth savalging. My NE was my first MZ and I still love it.Shoots a Great Plains conical real good. Best of luck.

Charlie

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Here is a NE replacement barrel. It is labled NE.
http://www.foxridgeoutfitters.com/detail.cfm?section=16&subsection=149,173&p roduct=4356

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Chasam60

Dang! there is always somebody that thinks of the sensible thing.

Mikear

I have called TC a couple of times about replacing a current breech plug with a new (because they will not sell them anymore - not evento a licensed gunsmith)- they indicate a flat charge of $85.00 so weigh that against the condition of the bore and what you might be able to purchase someplace else.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

The stuck item is most likely a jag with an oversized patch. I have been here and refuse to tell you how I cured the problem because we know not for sure what is behind the broken rod.

Send it off to T/C and ask for an estimate before they do the work. You never know they treat people real well there and even though this is obvious abuse they may fix it thinking an ill repaired barrel my be a liability.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Sharp-I was looking for a 1:28 barrel.Nothing wrong with my 1:48 I just was wanting to try somthing different.Hmmm I wonder if that .54 would drop in? Here I go again.

Charlie

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Hey MikeAR - I just told my cousin about this, and he came up with an idea.
After you've saoked it in oil, how about removing the barrel, putting a piece of leather (or something) on the floor, and then repeatedly dropping the barrel, muzzle-first on it (just from a few inches, of course).This might jar the broken piece of rod and whatever else is in there out. You could keep checking for progress by inserting the rest of the rod.
Might besafer than shooting it out, but not near the fun!:D

IM jaybe :)

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Thanks everybody for all the help. I got REAL lucky and managed to clear the barrel.A wild thought came to me just as I was about to hit the sack last night, and it actually worked. The gun had been soakingin Blaster penetrating oil (Blaster wasthe only thingI could find on my way home from work Monday evening). Anyway, Igot a real long skinny flathead screwdriver, stuck it down the barreland tapped it with a hammer just enough to sink it into the end of the broken ramrod. It was a little tricky and it took a few tries. When it felt like the screwdriver was seated pretty good in the ramrod I started twisting and the damn thing unscrewed right off the end of the jag that was stuck in the breech. I then took my big heavy CVAbrass range rod (the one with the big silver handle), stuck it down the barrel andscrewed it on to the stuck jag. I pulled and pulled but it wouldn't budge. I got the hammer and tapped on the edge of the handle (back out toward the muzzle) and the stuck jag broke loose after the fourth or fifthgood solid tap. There was not a charge in the barrel. It was a little short, concave, knobby loading jag and a round cleaning patch.That thing was all the way at the bottom of the breech as far as it could go. Man, was I thrilled when that thing broke loose.

I got a bore mop and suctioned some freshpenetrating oil in and out real good and was getting real good flow in and out of the nipple. I probably made about 100 passes from one end to the other before I quit. The batteries were dead on my bore light so I didn't get to inspect it real good but from just shining it with a flashlight it looks like the bore is in real good shape. The lands are really clean and smooth looking but there is still a little rust in the grooves. I'll get my act together tonight and try to scrub it down (per Cayugad and other's instructions) and drop a bore light down there. I think the barrel is very shootable from what I can tell so far. Now my main problem is the nipple. It's still fused in there pretty good and I'm afraid to mess with it too much. I've got the whole thing soaking again today.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike AR

Outstanding.... hope you get that nipple out - it will come eventually - next time you try to take it apply a little heat to it and tap it with a small brass hammer (like you were driving it into the bolster) then take the wrench to it... just a thought

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Sabotloader, I just got off the phone with a gunsmith and he gave me basically the very same advice as you. I'll give it a try. He also told me a story about a guy that brought in his "unloaded" .50 cal with arusty, stuck nipple several years ago. The guy assured him there was not a charge in the gun. He worked with it a few minutes and decided to apply a little heat.The moment he did, the gun saidBOOM...knocked a good sized chunk out of his shop wall and made him a little weak in the knees.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike AR

Yes, i was assuming you have already cleaned the bore - I was thinking you said you had everything out of the bore... Drop a cleaning rod down the barrel to the breech if it bangs metal to metal you should be good to go - even if it hits lead it will not "bang" the same or bounce the same as it does off of steel.

good luck

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Oh yeah, my gun is completely empty for sure, positive. I bounced that big heavy range rod off the bottom several times.

That gunsmith just told me his little story to make 100% sure that my gun didn't have anything leftin there before I used heat, and to let me know that he'd never take anybody's word for it ever again without double checking.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike- Good to hear you got it cleared.Also a good move to check with range rod to make sure.So many people overlook the simple things.In the case of the gunsmith simple could have gotten someone killed.There is no such thing as being too safe.My wife wonders why I check every gun when I take it out of the cabinet,when i checked it as I put it away.That's just me,the way i was taught.EVERY GUN IS LOADED UNTIL YOU CHECK IT YOURSELF.Now get that nipple out and get yourself some shooting time.I think you will enjoy it.

Charlie