RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I always used some stuff called Liquid Wrench when something would not come loose, like the nipple. Almost any good oil will penetrate to some extent. Getting the ramrod out might be harder but I would get to a good air compressor. See if you can blow the whole works out after you get the nipple out....

If you're sure the barrel is finally clean, then I'd start with some J-B Bore Paste. I would see just how bad it really is. I was given a rifle in much the same condition are you have and although pitted it shoots great. I never push it more then 70 grains of Goex but with a roundball it is a good shooter.

If the barrel is shot, then you might try lapping the barrel and see what happens. At that point there is nothing to loose...

I'd look into that barrel Encoreman listed if it fit my rifle. That would be a good way to start the reconstruction project.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

cayugad,
This sounds like a job for "Kroil Oil" It's the best penetrating oil I know of.
Trying to blow the ramrod out with an air compressor is a very good idea. If he can get that nipple off and attach a 1/4-28 air fitting to the nipple threads, he just might be able to blow the dang thing out.
The last resort is to add a trickle of BP under the nipple and touch off a #11 cap, but you'd want to make sure the barrels in a vice and pull the trigger with a string. Nothing like a bomb going off to upset the neighborhood:D

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Your right... that Kroll Oil I just bought might be just the ticket. It says it helps to get out rusted stuck parts. Might actually have that figured out there Encorman. The air compressor should blow it out but I worry since he claimed to get some soap and water working through there just how air tight it is.

Shooting out the obstruction could be real dangerous if there is a load in the rifle. Plus if there is any hope of saving the barrel and there is a load in the rifle they would have to seat the projectile and everything else down as far as possible, but it might work.

Another out would be to send the barrel to Thompson Center with a WARNING about the possible load in the barrel and the over all condition of it. They could pull the breech plug and then push the entire load out. Maybe even a local gun smith could do the same thing...

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Cayugad,
You are absolutelycorrect that shooting the ramrod out could be dangerous even with a small amount of powder. My gun dealer did this once with a trickle of powder behind the nipple and it shot the stuck ballout and through his barn and into his outboard motor cover. He'll never do that again or at theleast he'llpoint it in a safer direction the next time.
He may not get a good enough seal to blow it out with an air compressor like you said, but I'd sure give it a try. And again point the muzzle in a safe direction.
I've always wanted an excuse to pull a breech, but glad that I haven't had too at least on my rifles.
We use Kroil Oil at work and it's the best as far as I'm concerned. A little heat maybe neede too.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Mike AR

Man it is lucnch hour and I was going to add a few things - but it certainly has been covered... The onlt thing I would add is treat the barrel with boiling water get it as hot as you can to expand it - then apply the compressor or even a co2 cannister built to go on the nipple. My compressors are set at 150#'s but I have had better luck with the simple co2 ejector.. blow it out when it is hot and wet to help seal the whole thing... How far down the barrel do you think the tip of the ram rod is? Is seated or partially down? If it is not seated all the way down there may be some other options to get some iniatal movement... before you blow it out...

Good luck....

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I'm assuming that the rod(along with a cleaning jag)is down pretty much asfar as it will go. I'm basing that assumption on the other part of the broken ramrod that was still in the box. When you put the two pieces together, there's about 2 inches sticking out the barrel. However, something else to throw into the puzzle, there was also a broken short starter in the box too. What are the chances that I've got a piece of short starter AND a piece of a ramrod down in there?

A new barrel on ebay is sounding pretty good right about now.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I would hope that if the short starter broke he just dumped it back out... I would really think you are dealing with just the ram rod... I am also thinking in those days the rr did not come with a cleaning jag, just a cupped end to allow the seating of a round ball. Again I am assuming the end in that you have probably does not have the cupped end on it. I can not remember if the original rods had a threaded female reciever in them to allow the installation of a jag. The other end did for a patch puller and bullet screw. It is possible he broke the rod trying to remover a projectile. Which end do you have?

And then of course your assumption that it stuck while cleaning is also a very viable one - which might help the other problem if he was cleaning it probably was unloaded

My only thought is if it were not seated you could inster a wooden dowel the size of the bore and strike it with a hammer to help break the contact of the rod to the barrel.

Another thought fill the barrel with penetrating oil (Kroll is anecellent product) from the muzzle stand it up in a bucket in the corner and walk away from it for a few days, then start the removal process again.

Actually I am glad it is not one of mine but I do find the whole process a challenge - and I do love mechanical challenges....

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

I would guess this is what happened..

the prior owner used a short starter to load something thatFIT THE BORE TOO TIGHT. He broke the short starter trying to seat the projectilebut because he had the projectile by this time far enough down the barrel he could not reach it, he decided to DRIVE the projectile down the barrel with the ramrod and in the process broke the ramrod off in the barrel as well. He then got disgusted with the whole works, threw it back in the box it came in and tossed it under the bed.

Or he broke the short starter earlier and was swabbing the barrel and got the patch stuck in the bore. He then tried to pull the rod out somehow and snapped it off in the center. Rods used to break all the time when they had been made of wood. All it took was a flaw in the grain and that's where they would break.

If this was the orginalwooden rod, and when you put them togther, there is a brass end sticking out the end of the barrel as a combination of the two pieces, he could very well just have the rod stuck with a patch, in an unloaded barrel with it down near the breech. Or they might have loaded a projectile without powder and he was trying to pull the projectile when the rod broke, so down there is a projectile a ball puller, and no powder.

If that's the case, you could shoot the rod out. Once you get the nipple out, and your sure the inside of the barrel is dry, start packing powder into the barrel through the nipple hole. Use a nipple pick and pack it down there. Then when you have a couple grains in there, put the nipple back in, cap it, and shoot that thing off some place safe. Tie it to a tire and fire it with a string. The reason this is so dangerous is if a chunk of the rod broke off somewhere and it is not all the way down the bore and the rifle is loaded, you have a technical bomb there. Be far away from it when you set it off.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

Cayugad,
You should have been a private investigator.....heck maybe you were or are. LOL
If he can get the nipple off with Kroil (not Kroll) see url: http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=11344&itemType=PRODUCT&a mp;RS=1&keyword=kroil

I'd think that a person could use a small water pickto flush out any powder that could be in the breech area, you could use an air hose too to aid in this process. After a good cleaning, I'd think that you'd be pretty safe that the main charge had been cleaned out.It might be a good idea to do this a couple of times to be certain it washed out. Dry it all out and then trickle a little powder down the nipple hole and touch it off with a #11 cap. Taking all the safety precautions mentioned in above posts.
I wish I had the barrel to play with....dang.

RE: TC New Englander in BAD Shape
 

The broken pieceI found in thethe box is the cupped piece.If I remember correctly, it looks just like one that I sawwitha Springfield Hawken about 20 years ago.I believe one end was cupped, the otherwasa tapered, threaded female piece, but I could be mistaken.Since the cupped piece is the piece in the box, I assume there's a female threaded end stuck in the gun with a worm or bullet puller or something else attached???

I'll start soaking this dude tonight when I get home and get some good oil. I'll take your advice and walk away for a couple of days, then try to get that nipple off. Shooting that rod out sounds exciting too!
Thanks again for the GREAT ideas. You know you guys could get on CSI...