Problem with Loading Shockwaves??
 

2 weeks ago while shooting with a friend. He had a new box of 200 gr shockwaves. First one he tried to loadwould not go down the barrel. we pulled the breach kicked it out and yeah there was some fouling in the barrel. So we used some number 13 bore cleaner and gave it a try again. SAME problem. He was baffled cause he used a box of 250's pior and had no problems. It took both of us to get 1 down the barrel.

I grabbed one of the bullets and the blue sabot that came with it. When I put the bullet in the sabot it would not sit flush on it. It would get halfway. when I tried to force it to rest in the sabot it would push the flaps abnormally outwardandteh bullet would never rest in it.

I had some XTP's there and showed him that they fall right in place on the sabot with no problem.

I have never used shockwaves andwas not sure if that was normal or not. I thought I ran across a thread on some BP forum saying TC did package the wrong sabots with a batch of shockwaves. Anyone know anything about this??? Or any input on this particular issue?

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

The 200 grains Shockwaves are .40 caliber. They come with a blue sabot. I have also seen that the bullet does not appear to sit fully flush in the sabot during loading. I have never had a problem loading them or shooting them and they work really good.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

I shoot a lot of shockwaves in my Omega. I use the 250gr.
and the only way I can get them to load is to use the
Harvester crushrib sabot. My omega is 50cal. Tried once
to load the speer bullets, don't think I could get them
loaded with a sledge hammer. I've ordered some 300 gr.
Barnes expanders and hope to shoot them soon. Hope
your friend finds his problem.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

It was just weird. Of coarse he was not one to swab between shots either. So I can figure he just shot shot shot his last box then cleaned when he got home. I am not sure he even brushed out his bore. If that would matter or not??

But again I still could not believe how hard they were to load. It was soo bad he shot the ML twice then switched to his 22-250 barrel.

I think hemay be calling TC and see what they say.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

If he was not swabbing between shots then it is no surprise that he could not load the rifle... Some of the rifles have to be swabbed after each and every shot. If he wants to get away with out swabbing, then he needs to go to American Pioneer, Pinnacle, or Black Mag3. Even though triple Se7en is a clean powder, I have to swab between shots or after every few shots...

I am sure Thompson Center will tell him the same.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Yeah itis sort offunny cause he isn't real internet savy and I wasexplaining where I got the info on why I was swabbing between shots.

He apparently took the gun home gave it a hot water bath and cleaned it out real good.

But I did explain the importance of swabbing between shots. Maybe he sees that now. I am sure I will find out our next shooting session.:D

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

racks-n-beards

There was a problem once with TC Shockwaves - but it involved 250 grain shocks and the sabots pre-packaged with them. Those packages should be out of the system by now. I have no experiance with the 200 grain shocks and blue sabots...

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

I normally shoot the 250 grain shockwaves and am 9 for10 over the past two years on shots and recoveries (and three recovered shockwaves). The week after Christmas, I shot a nice 8 point at about 90 yards, knocked it down. Whilereloading, it rolled upright and ran off as I stood there jamming a bullet down the barrel in disbelief. I have only been BP hunting for 2 and 1/2 seasons, but all my kills have been one shot, one kill, usually recovered within 25 to 50 yards (with the exception of this one). Had a good blood trail for about 100 yards, but it trickled to a stop. I know my mistake, shot high and hit it high over the shoulder and back. Hopefully, this deer will survive, we looked over 8 hours trying to trackit down. But, this was in no way a failure of the bullet, totally mine. Had myshot been an inch lower, I don't think it would have ever got up. Makes me sick to think about it.

Last year, after the close of the season, I boughta box of the 200s for five bucks on sale at wally world. A couple of weeks ago, I tested the 200s just to see if the poi was close to the 250s. At 100 yards, there was little change. As I had killed my limit of bucks, 3 and had one doe left out of a limit of 3, I decided I would take one more doe using the 200s.

Because I didn't have the chance to shoot over 100 yards with this bullet and load, 110 grains of 777, that was my distance limit. My intent was to get a head on chest or heavy quartering shot to try to recover the bullet.
I was only able to hunt 4 or 5 times in the past two weeks and although I saw several deer, I never had the shot I wanted to test out the 200s. I finally got a deer in the right position yesterday (the last day of primitive season here in Mississippi) afternoon for the shot but could not tell for shure that it was a doe and not a button buck. So, I passed.

Anyway, I am pretty sure the bullet will perform and will give it a try next year. Totally intend to shoot to 200 yards and maybe 250 to test the balistics. I tried shooting over a chrony, but at 10 yards I got readings all over the place, from 2400 down to 1000 (was a group of 4 shotsbetween 2350 and 2400). I know that this range is impossible because all the bullets were inside a 2 inch group, even without letting the barrel cool. Who knows, 2400 may be accurate, but I doubt it. I'll try the 25 yard trick with a brick in the next couple of weeks.

BTW, I noticed that when the bullet is placed in the sabot that with normal finger pressure the bullet does not seat all the way as you guys did. However, I do think that when you push the bullet/sabot combo down the barrel, the bullet does seat all the way. Don't know for sure, but when I unload my Encore tomorrow, I'll let you know.
R
Hank

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

ahankster,I had the same problem with my chrony and had to move it out to 25 when the sabot goes through with or right behind the bullet you get a reading on the sabot which is slowing down fast at that point. At 25yd it has separted but you are wise to make a shield of some sort to protect against the sabot hiting the chrony.Lee

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Well he called TC yesteday. They said to ship thema bullet and the sabots and that they were going to send him a bunch back in return.

One thing is for sure.. Thompson's customer service is second to None!!! I called them with concerns with the camo screen printing on my forearm, no questions asked. Send it in we'll take care of it. Nother thing I called them back to see the status on the return shipment, no hassle at all, let me get you the tracking number.

Great Company!!!

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

racks- their customer service is one of the biggest reasons that company has done so well in the firearm industry. I have yet to present a problem to them (many of them I caused) they they have not solved.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Couple of things could be giving you some grief.

Omega's and Encores have fairly tight bores and typically load much happier when they are clean.

[ol][*]Loose the No 13 cleaner. First of all it does not effectively clean for the field (does it effectively clean anything?). Second, it can leave moisture in the bore which can cause a sabot to stick like it was welded. Try swabbing the bore after each shot with a damp (not wet) patch or 50/50 Mix of 99% Alcohol & Windex. Short stroke the patch down and up, flip and do again followed by a dry patch. Then the bore will be clean and dry. The two most successful elements to happy sabot loading. If you are a clean bore POI type like me, then you are set. Otherwise then you will need to occassionally clean the bore when loading becomes miserable. Again, I would forget about the No.13 cleaner.[*]Get a decent range rod. Nothing is more frustrating that trying to manhandle a stubborn sabot with the factory rod. I only use range rods in the field as well. Here is a decent one at a low price: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=srchdx&id=0037514216136a&a mp;navCount=1&podId=0037514&parentId=cat20 819&navAction=push&catalogCode=IG&rid= &parentType=index&indexId=cat20819&has JS=true[*]Short starting sometimes helps a bunch to get things on their way to the breech. Equip a quality short starter with a spire point loading jag (along with the range rod). Gently tap the short started Shockwave with the palm of your hand or a small nylon hammer. This is a nice short starter: http://www.knightrifles.com/productDetail.aspx?id=324600[*]There is an outside chance that you ended up with 250gr .451" projectiles but I doubt it. You could MIC the bullet and make sure. That would certainly make life miserable loading the .451" bullet with the Blue Sabot.[*]Lastly, you should be also using a bore guide with a range rod or short starter: 3/8" rods are common. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=6&subID=49&styleID=15 9[/ol]
Good Luck!

;)

Tahquamenon

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

13 was all I had at the time.I have some 50/50 mixed aleady for next shooting session. Hopefully this saturday!!

We will find out soon if it was the wrong bullet packed. he sent them the sabots and a bullet or 2. I will be interested to know if it was that.Casue againhe said he shot a whole pack of 250's when he got the gun and they loaded no problem!!

Man my wife is not gonna understand all this stuff I need to shoot with;). Her favorite saying "Is there anything you don't need??"

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

that would be a dangerous question to ask at my house. Probably get in a lot of trouble when I find out she had no since of humor....:D

I'm sure the fix is simple and all will be shooting fine. I was out blasting roundball and ball-ets today. Beautiful day here, in the 30's nice and warm no wind, sunny and fresh snow. The best time to shoot.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

HAHA yeah luckily my wife has a sense of humor cause I tell her "I don't need the naggingwhenI make purchases for my hobbies." :D

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

I unloaded my Encore for the last time of the season last night, cleaned it and put it away. When I pushed the 200 grain shockwave through the barrel, the bullet was solidly seated, all the way to the base of the sabot.
Most of us that loaded them noticed that it did not seem that by finger pressure the base of the bullet went all the way to the bottom of the sabot. It appears, in this gun and loading anyhow, that when you have the added pressure of the ramrod and pushing the sabot down the barrel that the bullet does go all the way to the base of the sabot.
R
Hank

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

ahankster - - I always suspected that this is what was happening with them.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Okay I understand the swabbing in between shots at the range, learned that over the past few days, but what about hunting, you shoot and hit, but then start to track and I never track with an empty weapon or no weapon, so is it okay to load a second one without swabbing or best to swab and track? :eek:

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Most (not all) projectiles can be loaded a couple of times before the need to actually swab is NECESSARY. The reason we swab between shots on the range is so each shot is like the one before it, to tune the accuracy of the load. If hunting and the need for a second fast shot is necessary, go ahead and load it. Also it is a good idea to practice that on the range to make sure the second even third if necessary are not too far off from the first...

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Thanks! I think it is finally sinking in and they say you cant teach an old dog new tricks! [8D]

RE: Problem with Loading Shockwaves??
 

Ihave the same problem with the 300 grain SSt's and 100 grains of Goex 3f. That's why my first shot on a clean barrel is the 300 SST and the second shot (without swabbing) is a 295 grain Power Belt. The power Belt often cuts the same hole at 100 yards. I must swab after every shot if I want to shoot sabots of any kind.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Most often after I shoot, I can see the animal drop. I was taught that you should allow about 15-20 minutesfor the animal to lie down and die without being pressured onward as they will run if they are at all able.

During this time I swab and clean the bore. Takes about2-3 minutes, then I reload. Whole process takes about 5 minutes. Then I wait for another10-15 minutes or so and then move from my hunting position to track or approach the downed animal.

However hunting with saboted rounds, I do also carry a speedloader charged with a 385gr Hornday Great Plains HPHB Slip-Fit conical load that I worked up. In the event I need a hassle-free easy load without swabbingin less than a minute. But I have yet to use the conical speed load for the purpose of rapid loading.

Tahquamenon

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

[/ol]
What and where do you get the 99% alcohol and which version of windex do yo use?

Thanks-

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

you can get the 91% alcohol at walmart for little over a 1.00. Not sure if there is that much of a difference beteen 99 and 91%. If no walmart around any drug store should have it. Windexjust the regular ol blue stuff I believe it is with ammonia as well.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Is it isopropal or denatured alcohol?

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

both types of alcohol will actually work. I used denatured alcohol for a long time and then got some isopropyl and because of the smaller bottles found it easier to store with my muzzleloading stuff. I now use the 91% isopropyl when I mix my solutions and when I use straight alcohol as a swab I use the 70% isopropyl alcohol..

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Thanks for the info. Its good to know you can make an effective solution from locally available ingrediants. Appreciate your time.

kymike

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Lots of great advice here.
I'll be honest, the only thing that touches my gun during the hunting season is spit.
I'm certainly not knocking folks and their cleaning routines, guess I am offering up myself as a worst case scenario and what you "could" get away with.

I know that goes agains allot of tradition about cleaning guns and all, but from the day season starts here, till the day it ends, my gun stays loaded (of course, I cap it before I hunt). I hunt almost every day, either for an hour or two before work or an hour or two after. I leave my gun loaded for 4 days at a time, max. If it goes longer, I'll either pull the load or shoot it. On occaision, I get the urge to shoot it 10 or so times, I also shoot it if there is any change it has been bumped. Even then, between shots and after the last shot, same routine. I have found that consistancy is the best friend of a muzzle loader. Perhaps because mine is consistantly dirty I do so well!!!!

Between shots, I do two spit patches on both sides and then a dry patch on both sides and reload. Then back into the case in the back seat of my F-250.

At the end of the season, I clean it very, very well. Including sabot plastic remover.
Of course, I couldn't do this if it wasn't stainless and I think the fact that it is an Encore helps it stand up to my abuses.

After two and a half seasons, despite all the hours in the woods and how much it has been shot, it may not be as pretty, but it shoots BETTER than when I bought it.
R
Hank

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

ahankster

Yup! Same here almost exactly including the F-250... I shoot the thing pre-season to eastablish POI swab clean it and thats it till the end of hunting season. loads may stay in the gun several weeks. And I might even shoot it several more times during the season - followed by another swab clean & a very very very thin coat of a bore oil to protect the bore.

Weather conditions and the exposure to bad weather may alter that routine if I feel the load or the barrel may have been compromised.

So we will both be on the wrong side of the fence.

mike

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Yup,
All that abuse, never had a misfire, hang fire or any other problem. Every deer I shot at, I hit. One shot, one kill on 10 of 11. The one I lost was totally my fault. I hit it high in the back, knocked it down and it ran off while I was reloading. Looked for 6 hours for that deer. I think he ran all the way to Alabama and Dr Death killed it..
R
Hank

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

He's in Michigan.

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Michigan - Alabama got to get them to come to Idaho, we don't have as many deer as you guys - We are basically a one deer per year state, then you need to declare what kind of deer you are goingto shoot, whitetail or muley

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

Well in our State of Wisconsin I think they are giving out far too many tags with the hopes of killing the entire herd off. That's a shame because it used to be you always saw deer and got one or two which was all a family needed. Now they want you to shoot six a year, and in some places the deer have all but vanished. Which I think is what they wanted in the first place.

Sabotloader.. how many elk can you shoot a year? Just one I am guessing. Also is that on a lottery system like our bear hunting is?

RE: Problem with Shockwaves??
 

cayugad

You really do have a point - I like to see a stable bunch of animals, not depleted and not to many. Here in northern Idaho you really have to hunt them - there are a few tree stands and some people out in the county will put in a food plot for themselves, but basically you are hunting on Forest Service, Potlatch lands.

One elk per year also just purchase a tag - most of the state is limited to bulls only. The northern pan handle still has a cow season. I feel that we really have hunted the bulls here way to hard and the cows are really multipling almost becoming domestic in the farmers fields.

One bear tag - One cat tag -one moose harvest in a lifetime...

Our fish & game is top heavy and very costly so fees have been going up each year as less and less people hunt because of the fees. Also a lot of out state people pay enormous fees to hunt and the state trys to get as many as it can in - money for the coffers.

But as long as I can hunt I will pay the fees...

RE: Problem with Loading Shockwaves??
 

The shockwaves are great bullets and in my bore I get them to load easily. This will probably only work with pellets as I have had no effects on accuracy at all from this approach. Get a lubricated patch such as Knights or Traditions that come in a jar with lube already blended into the patch, they should smell like bengay and they are yellow in color. Run one of them through the barrel down and up. Pop in the pellets and then load the Shockwave it will go in easy and always seats for me and matches my witness mark, I give it an extra push and feel the sabot/bullet move an extra 1/4" which seats the end cup of the sabot on top of the pellet. This no doubt creates a tight seal from pellets to sabot. This takes practice to do since you will probably crush your pellets at first, but to me it is second nature and the feel is right to me. I found this out after one afternoon when I did the procedureand had to unload it since the deer would not cooperate. The removed sabot/bullet had a pellet pushed all the way up into the underside of the sabot and showed a tight seal. Shot after shot is in the zone. It works for me and if you have a tight bore it should work for you. If you shoot loose powder I don't think this work as the powder would definetly stick to the lube. The lube is a thin application but I think the powder would stick. Just my two cents.

RE: Problem with Loading Shockwaves??
 

Finally got an update on the 200 grn shockwave loadingproblem. First TC sent him a pack of 250 grn shockwaves. Which I thought was od cause he was shooting 200's and that is what he had his loading issue with.

Well few weeks after that they sent him some new sabots. He said they were the same color as the ones he sent back (blue). The bullets sat much better in these new ones. So it appears the wrongs size was packed originally. No letter from TC on what had happened but they didcorrect the problem.