No I don't have one and won't be getting one either. A guy can buy alot of powder and bullets for what getting geared up with the ACP would cost. I'm not surprised about the ignition problems since the cartridge isn't actually open to the bore and its charge. If the cartridge casing were performing the funtion it does in the pistol, namely sealing the breech gases, then I could see some benefits, not the least of which would be reducing forces on the breech plug itself as the casing would carry some of it directly to the receiver.

Again, it is nice not to have to purchase one to find the information you guys provided. Thanks a bunch!

Happy Hunting, Phil

Relative to handling. I do load and unload the .25 cases by hand. It is also possible to insert them in the T/C loader that is intended for 209's. I had some problem with the 209's not wanting to come out of my Omega. Some fall out some do not. The ones that fall out can get trapped in the trigger housing and that can be a problem. I have not had the problem with the .25 as I can pluck it out more easily. I can also carry the .25 cases loose in a pocket which I do not feel comfortable doing that with the 209 primers as they are easier to set off with a fall on a rock. I could not find any of the 209-4 primers in the Phoenix valley and no one could even verify that they existed. I understand that the "new" remington is probably the old 209-4 so it is now available but at a very high price at Walmart which is the only place I can find them. My Omega is a crud ring master. It makes such a bad ring with 777 in any form that I have finally stopped trying to use the stuff. I get very good results with Black Mag'3 and it too is pretty steep in price. I am going to start evaluating Pinnacle as I have four pounds of the fffg version which apparently works pretty well for some. I may go all the way back to real black as I have several pounds of ffg Goex and have never tried it in the Omega. Pyrodex shoots extremely well in the Omega but is pretty dirty and second shots are a little slow to accomplish. I can get four or five shots with the BM3 without a swab between shots so a second shot is pretty fast. Personally I prefer to put two in an Elk if I can even though I agree one will usually kill the critter if placed right, but not immediately. I see TV hunters having a big bull drop in its tracks when hit; but, my Elk apparently have not seen the shows as they stay on their feet with even direct heart shots. I guess it is a personal thing but the 25 works great for me. I have not have any ignition problems with the conversion. The cases seal quite well on the mouth of the case if it is the correct length for your rifle. I also get absolutely no blow back with the conversion. I have not heard of any one having any problems with this conversion before this thread.

MLKeith

I will try to address your remarks in the order you presented them, and please do not think I am down grading your efforts or the 25 conversion.

This is agreed to and understood.

As I do not shoot an Omega, and you can not find many of them here in the Northwest, I am unaware of this problem. This problem alone could justify the move to the 25 acp.

I agree do not carry the 209's loose in any pocket and that is one of my points,carry them in a capper. The primer is protected from any kind of contact. It allows you to load your breech plug by inserting the 209 directly into the plug with a mechanical device no fingers involed - do it with gloves on if you choose. The end of the capper also contured to reach/insert into the the spent 209 and flip it out.

I am unsure also about the state of the 209-4, and I agreeit would be very difficult for me to purchase those high priced ML 209's, either Remington or Winchester. I bought a couple of 1000 of then a couple of years ago. I will follow up with Remington to find the status of the 209-4, the last time I talked to them they were still being made but that was several months ago. I do have an alternative to the 209-4, Cheddite makes an excellent coller 209 cap that I do use for trap shooting, but again Cheddites are getting harder to come by because they are French. Cayugad and several others have found good luck with either a CCI or a Winchester I cannot remember which, but a quick PM to Cayugad would take care of that.

I understand that 777 can and does cause the "crud ring" and that a cooler primer is suppose to eliminate that. I am not sure that is the correct diagnosis of the problem. And as stated to you I do not battle that fight. And that really is not totally the truth, on the very forst shot on a cleaned and lightly oiled barrel I will get the beginnings of a "crud ring." My personal thoughts is it the results of oil baking at the ignition point. After the iniatial shot I do feel the "crud ring" again even after 30/40 shots at the range(rock pit).

I have read several of your posts on Greybeard about your preference for BM3 and again I do want to pay that much so I will stick with t7 only because it is working for me. Fouling doesn't seem to present me a problem for several rounds. One of the things I want to do is shoot as many shots as I can to see what that number might be - I know I have loaded 3 shots in a row with no difficulties. Again I think this is a part of my barrel treatment routine.

And that to me is a quality answer. My only disappointment was or is when people justify the conversion for "handling" ease. I face the same problem when I try to share my barrel cleaning routine - it is not accepted by many but it sure works for me and has for along time.

I am sure you have had experiance with a 209 capper but I am goingto include a picture of the capper I use. Ignore the 20 gauge shell and weather shroud in the picture the picture was for someone else.

I think this is a very good reason to use them. I think if I owned an Omega I would seriously consider the .25ACP Breech plug for this reason alone. Since I own a NEF Sidekick, the primer carrier works similarlyasthey give megood handle on the209's.Thank you for your comments.

Happy Hunting, Phil

I bought the 25 acp conversion a couple months ago for my omega, I've fired off about 100 shots with the conversion so far with out any missfires. I'm using the CCI 400 primers with 100grs of APP 3f, I've also shot the 2f as well with no problems. I hope I never experience a misfire with this setup as it works well in my omega. Honestly my groups did seem to tighten up quite a bit but it could be a combination of different things not just the conversion. The 25's seem cleaner to me and are easier to install and remove from my rifle,
I have not shot this set up in below zero weather yet but I have shot itona couple of 20 degree days with no setbacks.

In response to Sabotloader; I agree pretty much with all that you have posted. I am not sure what rifle you are using but the Omega is definately not a prime contender for Tripple Seven (at least mine is not). I have a stainless .50 which has been smoothed a little with JB bore paste (about 200 passes) and still will not allow a second shot with 777 no matter what primer is used. I can get multiple shots (at least four or five) using BM3 and Pinacle looks like it will allow multiple shots also. American Pioneer would let me load two or three in a row before the fouling would stop a sabot. Powerbelts can be loaded a couple times more before problems start. I have obtained all three face configuration breechplugs that were made for the Encore/Omega and some are better for fouling with some powders. The flat faced one seems to be the worst for 777 crud ring. The latest with a recess but a flat ring around the recess seems to be better. I have mostly shot loose 777 so I cannot comment on the pellets. I have had extremely good luck for accuracy with 300gr. bullets in Harvester sabots with both Pyrodex and Black Mag'3 (between 80 and 100 grains of powder). I also had very good accuracy at 100 yards or less with 80gr. Pyrodex and 295gr. Powerbelts. At 80 yards they cloverleaf from my rifle off the bench with a scope. I plan to stay with the .25 conversion which works great for me and is easy to do as I have a lot of once fired .25 brass that I scrounged from a shooting area. I even have the reloading dies for them (now that is one you don't see reloaded a lot).