Powerbelt Issues
 

No, I'm not gonna bash them, I'm just having some issues shooting them.

I recently purchased a used T/C Firestorm(flintlock) and I'm currently shooting 245 HP powerbelts out of it with a charge of 100gr FF black powder. I've came to notice, that after one shot, it's extremely difficult to seat a bullet in this gun without swabbing out the barrel. It makes me jealous to see 3 of my buddies shooting 6 or shots out of their guns without cleaning at all. Not to mention they can seat their bullets while using one finger to push the ramrod down the barrel. Now Im doing the same stuff they are doing as far as cleaning/oiling the barrel goes, and I literally have to pulverize that bullet to get it to seat. None of my buddies are using any bore butter or anything like that, just rem oil. I'm considering trying the butter hoping it will "condition" the barrel to help me out. Am I missing something here? I'm new to this black powder game, and I love shooting at the range, but I'm really tired of cleaning after every dam shot. It gets old real fast. Any tips from anyone? I hope I didn't buy a clunker gun...
I belong to a gym, and I really don't need a workout at the range...[:@]:D if you have any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

Mikey

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Are your buddies shooting TC's ? They are quite a bit tighter than some of the other manufactures , especialy knite .

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

are you shooting the same powder as them??

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Yea, they are shooting newer Hawken rifles, mine is a 2 year old firestorm. Same powder, same bullets

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

You could be getting a "crud ring" of sorts. Are you seating the first load very well or just touching the powder? With powerbelts, there is an airspace left inside the cup if you do not compact the bullet into the powder sufficiently. This tiny airspace can lead to a buildup of fouling. I get the same problem, but I use 777 powder. 777 is known for this. I can get about 5 loads thru the gun before it is too hard to seat a bullet. Maybe your bore is just tighter and shows the effects sooner.
Also, as stated previously, you should use NO lubes with powerbelts. They are designed for a clean dry bore. Any oily residue will collect fouling and cause problems. Always clean the bore with alcohol thouroughly before shooting.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Mikey S.

I do not regularly use real BP so I am only shooting in the dark here. If Roundball or Cayugad see this they will probably have much better thoughts.

I was my understanding that use of oil and real BP residue created a real goop in the barrel my like "tar." That was why you were suppose to an all natural product such as BB or Wonder Lube. Both of these product reduce BP fouling.

When I did shoot real BP I was always using WL on patches to swab with followed by a dry patch, but that was way back in the beginning when I was trying to learn also. Many conicals still come lubed with BB to help reduce fouling.

It wouldn't seem loading PB's would be much of a problem in anything so the only thing I can think of is the skirt is shaving off the fouling in the barrel and getting clogged up with accumulation going down.

Last thought, since you are using PB's start shooting with a really clean dry barrel. Run alcohol swabs and dry swabs down until you are sure there in no oil left in the barrel or the pores of the barrel, then try a few rounds.

Good luck in your search...

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

I typically do clean the barrel thoroughly before shooting the first shot, with alchohol or super scrub or somethingthat leaves no residue behind. I'm starting to believe(after reading some replies)that the pores of the barrel still hold some of the rem oil in the barrel, even after the cleaning; and the problems arise after the first shot is fired.For instance, yesterday, on my first hunt with the gun, I shot at a deer at 75 yards. The barrel was as clean as I know how to get it, and after the shot, I wanted to get a second round in the barrel in case I needed a follow up shot. I swear, it took me 5 minutes to ram that bullet down that barrel. My hunting buddy actually got irritated and left me and went and found my dead deer for while I was cussing up on the hill. Later when we returned to his house, I took out my breech plug to knock that second bullet out, and the hollow point nose was completely smashed........that's how hard I had to push on my ramrod to seat the bullet.

Livbucks, I seat the bullet well. I typically push it till it stops on the powder, then take the rod and and smack it off the bullet a couple times till the the rod starts to bounce off. This is how I was taught anyways...it seems to work for everyone else I shoot/hunt with.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

If you're running an alcohol swab down the barrel before loading, you should not have a problem with the black powder/tar goop issue. If you were, you would notice it.

Powerbelts should load easy. It sounds like you have a very tight bore on that rifle. I would contact Thompson Center by telephone and discuss that problem with them.

Like your friends, I can shoot black powder and shoot numerous shots without swabbing the barrel. As for the patched roundball, are you shooting a .490 grain roundball and what thickness patch?

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Cayugad, believe it or not, I haven't fired a patch or roundball out of this gun myself. I bought it used, took it to the range, layed it on the bags, fired a Powerbelt, and it hit right where I was aiming. Lucky I guess. I left everything alone, then just shot for groups out to 70 yards. I forgot to mention that the hardest point of seating the bullet is right in the first 6" of the barrel, or as long as my bullet seater is. I really have to lean on that ball to push the bullet into the barrel after is passes the first 2" of the muzzle.It goes ok until I get to about 3" before the breech plug, the I really have to hammer on it to set the bullet firmly. I was beginning to think that maybe I was melting the belts, but I have been finding them in the snow about 25-30 yds. from the gun, completely intact. I probably will call TC and try to remedy this after PA's season ends.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

It sounds like your building up a large fowling in the breech. A couple suggestions, have you ever tried Goex 3f instead of 2f it might leave less fowling. Also, you are shooting Goex and not Elephant powder I hope? Elephant was the only powder that left that kind of crud build up in my rifles. Needless to say I did not shoot much of it.

Another thing you can do is swab the barrel between shots with 91% isopropyl alcohol. One wet swab both sides, and then a couple dry ones and it should load easy again. It does sound like it had a tight bore though. Powerbelts are really easy to load normally.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Yea, I'm shooting Goex FF. I usually swab with the TC pre-saturated cleaning patches in between shots at that range. It works really well, but doing after every shot gets to be a pain.....and that business in the woods yesterday really had me jacked.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

You are not using those Knight Powerbelts are you? They were specially sized powerbelts for certain guns. Just a thought.
Powerbelts just about fall down my gun on their own.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Mikey S.

Question? On the first load on a clean bore - How does the sabot go down? Do you feel any metal to metal or does ot slide down plastic to metal and slide down really easy?

Since the gun is new to you - I would also suggest that you really take the gun apart and clean the bore. Pour boiling water through the barrel - the boiling water will clean out a oil and loosen plastic foulng - then brush it with a bronze brush while it is hot. Rinse it well with boling water. A caution should also be noted here - when you are done with the water have dry patches on hand and dry the barrel right now to prevent flash rust/oxidation. Let the barrel cool and without the breech plug in push a PB down through - Is it easier now than it was?

You now have a couple of options if you wish to continue shooting BP. The old timers would tell you keep the oil out of the gun - use all natural lubes. I think I would try this before going back to an oil.

Since livbucks brought it up I do wonder about the PB-Knight question I do not use PB's so I am not up on the different varieties....

Just to let you know I shoot T7 and I still use BB because I really believe it does help reduce fouling both palstic and powder, but I believe there is a very specific way to use it and specific way to apply it. If you are interested let me know and I'll get you the infomation.

Good luck - but, there should really be know reason you have to pound a PB down the barrel.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

it sounds like a dirty barrel.i seen this on range with round balls.i saw people break their rods trying to pound ball home. try soaking barrel in your favorite cleaner.let it sit and loosen up inside, then brush and hot water.i use car brake cleaner in spray canto really clean my barrel ,it works great.it comes with a plastic straw so you can spray into breech area and down barrel.its cheap to at wal-mart.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

What in the world is "super-scrub"?

Sounds like you have a fouled barrel - perhaps using a jag instead of a bore brush& have been using the wrongsolvents to clean with. Use Shooters Choice solvent or Birchwood Casey 2 In 1 Bore Cleaner WITH A BORE BRUSH. Let the first two wet patches with either solvent soak for 15-20 minutes before brushing it out.

Stuff liike "super-scrub" may have an agent in it that makes the bore tacky when it get hot from ignition. What oil are you using for storing puirposes? Also... T/C has two different pre-saturated patches.... one is the very weak T/C 13 -- the other is Bore Butter/Wonderlube 1000 patches. Which one were you using?

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Sorry, I forgot the name of the stuff I had, it's called "Quik Scrub". Basically Shooter's Choice versionof Rem Action Cleaner. As far as I can tell, it leaves no residue behind on anything I've used it on. I used it as a last resort to try and remove the Remoil from the barrel.

Believe me guys, I've tried just about everything except running bore butter down the barrel after cleaning the barrel in hot water. I even let some Hoppes Elite Gel soak in the barrel for a few minutes the other nite, brushed it, and ran a few pathes through that came out clean. I gave the barrel a coat of 3 in 1 oil for the time being till I can pick up some bore butter. I'll give in another scalding bath tonite with soapy waterto get the oil out and run some bb patches down there and shoot it this weekend.

The bullets go down the barrel perfectly fine when it's clean.

Sabotloader, I'd like to read your info. on the BB and how you use it. You can pm me with it if you like.

I'm not using the Knight PB's.

Honestly, guys, the only reason I didn't use the BB is because my buddies didn't use it in their guns with PB's. Hopefully it'll help.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

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RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Seems to me that you have discovered your own problem-too much fouling from real BP!! Usingreal BP, you get reliable ignition, butalso a lot more fouling is deposited in the bore. This makes things get tight quick!

For the Brown Bess smoothbore musket, the British issued paper cartridge ammunitiuon in belt boxes with the cartridges packed in rows with bullets of descending diameter so that as the muskets fouled up, the troops were loading progressively smaller balls so they would go down the barrel!

I suggest you try shooting your rifle with American Pioneer powder or GOEX Pinnacle instead of real black, to see how it loads when the bore is not crudding up so rapidly! If you use CCI No. 11 magnum caps, you will not have any ignition problems. Either of these two powders cleans out more easily than either BP or Pyrodex.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

This is a flintlock. I played around with some lose 777(3f), and didn't like it all as far as the firing went.To long of a delay. I imagine all the others will be about the same in a flint gun.

RE: Powerbelt Issues
 

Mikey S.

I hope you get this problem solved.. I did send two PM's to you - I had to break them up because of size limitations in the mail system... In the write up where it says to apply oil - DON'T

I asked you this in the PM but which BP are you using? That can also make a difference in powder fouling.