Black Powder Ask opinions of other hunters on new technology, gear, and the methods of blackpowder hunting.

Primers?

Old 12-19-2005, 11:56 AM
  #1  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
Default Primers?

I have asked the question earlier about my Optima Pro that does not group. I have been using the standard Remington 209 shotgun primer. Is there any real difference between theseand "black powder" primers. Could this be the culprit?
Bawapp is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 01:06 PM
  #2  
Boone & Crockett
 
sabotloader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Default RE: Primers?

Bawapp

I have read your posts - 1) just can't remember if you are using pellets or loose powder 2) are the primers going off?

The remington standard 209 primer is a stronger (hotter)primer than the ML primer - so I am not thinking that going to a lower temp would help. I use even a cooler primer the Remington 209-4 for 410 shotguns - It has never failed me but I am using t7 loose powder. In the colder temps the t7 pellets can be a bear to ignite. A lot of people are using the Winchester 209 with really good luck with pellets - might try them. Then there are even hotter 209's when you start getting into the Federals.

If you are using pellets, how old are they and are dry, have they been exposed to moist air for any length of time - they will absorb it?

Trying to remember your accounts - I would really be leaning to the moist powder end of the spectrum... just my 2 cents


sabotloader is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 01:30 PM
  #3  
Dominant Buck
 
cayugad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
Default RE: Primers?

I was shooting some of the Remington Kleenbore Primers the other day in my Knight Disc. Since I was shooting loose powder I was sure the igntion would be fine. Also the low power Kleenbore Primers do not blow the plastic disc to pieces and I can reuse them more. I am not sure I would use the Kleenbore primers if I were shooting through a straight breech plug. I might stick with the Winchester W209's. Although I have been shooting the Kleenbore in my Black Diamond XR and they have been shooting very well.

You might want to try a stronger primer and see if it makes a difference. Perhaps you're getting a slow igniton. I personally like the Winchester W209 primers (not to be confused with the Winchester WML209 primers). Any time you change any little thing about a rifle, you can change the way it shoots and groups. For instance, if you are having bad results with Triple Se7en in your Optima, then try some Pyrodex RS or even some of this APP, Shocky Gold or Pinnacle 3f. Something has to make that rifle shoot. CVA rifles are normally very good shooting rifles...
cayugad is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 03:56 PM
  #4  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
Default RE: Primers?

Powder t7 loose, kept in a climate controled out building.
Primer Remington 209 BP Primers
Projectile Power belt 245 HP
Sanity going quickly.
All you folks have been great with the advice, I would have wrapped it around a tree by now otherwise, Thanks again
Bawapp is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 05:09 PM
  #5  
Boone & Crockett
 
sabotloader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Default RE: Primers?

Bawapp

Well that answers both of my powder questions... Now I am a dumbfonded also because a Remington KleenBore 209 really should start that setup.

When you pop a couple of caps before loading do you see sparks come out of the barrel or if you shoot it close to the ground it should move things - dust - dirt - leaves?

My next question is the powder getting contaminated inside the bore?
grease from the breech plug? oil from the barrel? and/or condensation in the bore running down past your PB and into powder? These are all way out there but just thoughts.

Next question working along these lines - if you were to load and shoot right after loading would the gun go off? Is your problem occuring after and extended time in the field?

Of course there is a possibilty the primers could be weak - can not imagine that but it is possible.

I wasn't much help I'm sure but these are my thoughts...

sabotloader is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 05:38 PM
  #6  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
Default RE: Primers?

When I pop primers there are sparks visible at the barrel end.
Would "Bore Butter" have any effect on the contamination thought?
The problem is from the start no matter how many rounds or how oftenI swab the barrel.
As I stated in by other thread, I ran a PB thruogh the barrel to see how the rifling contacts the PB. Only the belt is in contact with the rifling. Maybe my bore is slightly over or the PB's are slighthly under .50. Any thoughts?

Bawapp is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 05:55 PM
  #7  
Boone & Crockett
 
sabotloader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Default RE: Primers?

Bawapp

Oh Geez! you almost said a nasty word - Bore Butter - Bore Butter is water soluable and can and will contaminate powder if it gets in contact for a long enough period and if there is enough BB.

I am going to assume that you are only using a very small amount to lubricate the post.. That in itself should not cause powder contam.

If you might be using it to lube or swab the barrel - that could be a problem especially if left over a period of time... How are you using it?

PowerBelts - they, the bullet part, do not normally contact the barrel until the gun is firedwith pressure cause the bullet to grab the lands.

What kind of gun is this? Never mind just saw that it was a CVA Optima... depending on how you are using the BB this also might be your grouping problem...

When I pop primers there are sparks visible at the barrel end.
This really should set your powder off... If you want to go back to square one - Clean the barrel down to bare metal - dry it make sure it is dry - no lubricants no nothing - pop a could of primers - load the powder - load a clean dry PB and shoot it - if it goes off load a second now swabbing nothing and shoot it. If they both go off then I think we are on the right track...

another thought as remember your posts - a second primer or third will ignite the powder - each of these primers will cause some drying of contaminated powder and eventually it is going off - that is what I am thinking... so I am still leaning to the contaminated powder thought...

don't get me wrong about BB either it is a good product for which it was designed - I use it in my guns to reduce fouling but, I probably apply it a lot different than the normal duck...
sabotloader is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 06:07 PM
  #8  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
Default RE: Primers?

[quote]ORIGINAL: sabotloader

Bawapp


another thought as remember your posts - a second primer or third will ignite the powder - each of these primers will cause some drying of contaminated powder and eventually it is going off - that is what I am thinking... so I am still leaning to the contaminated powder thought...



The rifle ignites the first time, no problem there.
And yes I probally do use the BB incorrectly. I am swabbing the barrel with it, Is that wrong?
I had no problems with my old CVA doing this.

Bawapp is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 06:21 PM
  #9  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Default RE: Primers?

I would try using a larger bullet versus the 245. You didn't say what charge you are using 100 or 150 grains. I would switch to the 295 PB's and use a little bore butter on the PB's caps. Cayugad has said this before. I have he CVA Hunterbolt and do have sometimes issues with groupings at 100 yards with the PB's. I can't load the Shockwaves and the Hornadys, I tried them. I can us the Buffalo Ballets but with the PB's I have killed several deer and I'm satisfied with the results.

Tomster
tomster2 is offline  
Old 12-19-2005, 06:22 PM
  #10  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 592
Default RE: Primers?

Read your thread,and i thought,why not try the 209M primers. They are the same size but made for magnum loads in shotguns,in the 3" and 3 1/2" loads. I bet you will find a difference. vangunsmith
vangunsmith is offline  

Quick Reply: Primers?


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.