GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

I've been thinking of getting a Green Mountain drop-in barrel for my T/C
Hawken 45.cal with a faster twist. Are the rifling cut any deeper in the
GM barrels than the T/C's? Do you know if the load data would be the same for the GMas T/C's? If you own or owneda GM barrel, how well were you pleased with it?

Thanks for any help.

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

I have fast twist barrels in both the Thompson Center and the Green Mountain Barrels. I have no idea of the depth of their rifling cut. I do know that both of them are great shooters. I am more them pleased with the way the new Stainless Steel Green Mountain Barrel I put on one of my Renegades shoots. It is accurate and tuned in real fast. My Thompson Center inline rifles shoot excellent as well. I'd hate to live on the difference between them.

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

Thanks cayugad,
I appreciate your help and input. I sent an email to GM, but they
never replied. I had much rather hear from a fellow shooter
on the subject anyway. My current TC barrel has lost it's accuracy
considerably. I noticed in some of your post you shoot a wad
behind a conical. How do you determine which wad to use with what
load? I thought I might try that before buying another barrel.

Thanks again.

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

Just in case this can help you...I've been shootiung TC and GM barrels for 15+ years...never had one lose it's accuracy due to any barrel problem.

Buildup can cause accuracy to gradually deteriorate, and I've restored a couple used barrelsI've bought very simply as follows:

1) Get a bottle of Shooter's Choice Black Powder Cleaning Gel, and plaster it in the bore with big patches soaked with it...2-3 applications of it to ensure the bore walls are plastered.
2) Let it sit 10-15 minutes
3) Run a bore brush up and down a couple dozen strokes
4) Dry patch it all out

5) Repeat this entire process 3-4 times

6)Soak the barrel in a large 5 gallon bucket of steaming hot soapy water for 15 minutes,pump flushing itclean it as you normally do.
7) Rinse it in hot clean water
8) Get it 100% bone dry
9) Plaster it heavily with natural lube 1000 while it's still warm

Recheck / relubethe next day to see if more crud has "bloomed" out of the metal...and use a bore brush as paret of evert cleaning regimen thereafter to prevent buildup...this should take care ofthe accuracy concern.

All myTC and GM barrels areaccurate...Ionly buy GM barrels in the event TC doesn't make what I want...examples:
.58cal Flint round ball barrel for a TC Hawken
.54cal Flint smoothbore barrel for the Hawken
.62cal Flint smoothbore barrel for the Hawken

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

I had a .54 caliber Renegade do the same thing on me many years ago. I thought the barrel was lost. Turns out, it was full of crud. Bore Butter and other stuff to be exact. For years I had treated the barrel with bore butter. Many people use bore butter and have great results with it. I am NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

I had hunted with the rifle for years and noticed during practice that the accuracy was not as "dependable" as it used to be. Many more flyer's, etc. I shot a deer that year. An easy shot. Aimed at the shoulder and took it right through the guts. Then the chase was on. We tracked that deer for miles.

After all of that, I then got boiling water, bore brushes, andsolventand began to scrub and clean that barrel. The crud that came out of that bore was terrible. I am sure it was years and years of bore butter build up. Once I got that all out the accuracy was back.

Seeing from Roundball and others instructions I may have been applying it wrong I tried the same barrel all over again with bore butter. Just this week I was going to shoot it and ran a clean patch down the bore and it came back up all "tobacco juice looking." Well all the bore butter is now out of it and Birchwood Casey Sheath is in the bore.

Green Mountain barrels are excellent barrels. The .58 caliber 1-70 twist I have is a very accurate rifle. Also the new stainless steel 1-28 barrels I have are real accurate with sabots. I really like the GMB's.

I make my own wads out of construction felt, and I lube then with a home made lube. Some conicals like wads and some don't. You just have to play with it to see if they like wads.

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

Many thanks to both of you guys.
Your probably right about the remaining fouling and crud in the barrel.
I call myself cleaning itreally goodat the end of a shooting session.
But I've noticed sometimes when loading, more so with a sabot it will
feeltight in spots on the way down. The reason I thoughtthe rifling
may be effected is when I'm pushing the projectile down the bore I can
feel it turning with the riflingthrough the ramrod til I get about 8" off
the bottom. Then it seems to go straight down. I'll give it another good
cleaning now that I have a good recipe to follow.

I missed a doe at 50 yards with it 3 days ago. I only got to hunt 2 days
out of our 2 week season due to work and home chores etc... Needless
to say I was more thanheartbroken when the shot didn't hit home. I had
shot it on paper about a week before and hitting a pie plate group at 50
yards with a stray about every third or fourth shot. After the missed doe,
I backed off to 75 yards and it rarely ever hit the Outers 100yrd smallbore
target at all. :(

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

Many times, I will feel the projectile turning as it goes down the bore of the barrel against the rifling. That tight spot your feeling could be fowling, hard to say and then when you said it gets to the bottom again, you'd have to look after you clean it and see if you can see the rifling real good down there.

What sabots are you shooting with that 1-48 twist? Curious is all. I have shot some T/C Cheap Shots out of my Hawkins and they did real good. I get better luck with ball-et, conicals, or roundball.

If you want to see down the bore, take a brass casing from a 30-30 rifleand some Brasso Polish and polish that casing up nice and bright.(I useit on my .50 calibers) Then a little electrical tape on the nose of the casing (use a small screw driver to tuck the tape in)so it does not scratch anything, and drop that down the bore. It should fit. If not go to something smaller then a 30-30. After it falls down to the bottom of the bore, shine a flashlight down the barrel and inspect the rifling.

If the rifle is old you will see scratches on the inside walls of the bore, but that's not a big deal. Look to make sure you can follow the groves all the way down the bore and that they are nice and clean. Also you can look for rust spots in there... Its a cheap bore light is all....

I also, every so often take a Q-tips and dip into that Brasso and use it on the patch box, but plate, trigger guard, nose cap and ram rod eyes. Smear that on and let it sit a few minutes then take a old sock and polish all that off. (You will see the black oxidation come off) and your rifle will shine like new. I also use it to brighten my breech plugs in my inline rifles...

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

The sabots I've been shooting are, Hornady 158gr JHP/XTP and TC
Break-a-way 180gr JHP. The TC's seem to load a little better than
the Hornadys. I've bought some Ball-ets, but haven't had a chance
to try them out yet. Just got'em in a few days ago. I've tried round
balls, but I think the patches I have are to thick. The starter scores
the ball when tring to drive it in the bore.

I bought the gun back in 1989 or 1990, and probably shot around
175 loads altogetherthrough it. The powder I've been shooting is
as old as the gun. (Pyrodex RS and Pyrodex P) But it's been sealed
and stored in my gun cabinet over the years. Haven't had any misfires
with it, but I kinda wandered if there may be pressure changes due to
the old powder. I don't know if powder gets less potent with age or not.
Looks ok and smells ok, but sometimes has small clumps in it. I can barely
touch it with my finger and it will crumble apart.

I should have mention this earlier in the post, but I just thought of it as I
was reading your reply. I was cleaning the gun a few years back with one
of those aluminum cleaning rods and nylon brush. Well, the brush hit bottom
and stuck the rod pulled apart halfway down the barrel. After about 2 weeks
of working with a nylon string with a loop and slip knot I finally with drew
the rod. Needless to say the bore had rusted. I got back on it with a bronze
brush and ramrod and give it a good scrubbing. The accuracy varied a
little then, but seemed to comeback after a few shots and cleanings.

I really appreciate the bore light tip, I'm going to trythat out tonight.;)

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

If I could offera suggestion, and I sincerely mean this in the most helpful way,we should all really work on our rifles and loads to find what it takes to get excellent accuracy, and then weshould practice enough with thatloadto be able to hit a tennis ball repeatedly at 50yds...should be no misses from flyers, and should be nomisses from our shooting abilities.

IMO, it doesn't matter if we shoot offhand standing,or standing/leaning against a tree, or sitting leaning against a tree and resting on arms on our knees, etc...whatever way we have to shoot to always hit a tennis ball at 50yds is the way we should always shoot...doesn't do anygood to hit it from a bench rest at the target range 'cause wedon't shoot that way in the woods...we need to practice at the rangethe way we'll shoot in the woods.

My .02 cents

RE: GM Barrel vs. T/C's
 

Blown Smoke.. if the powder is that old it sure would not hurt to get a new pound of it and try that. Although I have had powder over 6 years old (some Clean Shot forgotten in the back of the shooting closet) and it actually shot fine.
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Roundball as usual has a good point that one should practice shooting their rifle the way they hunt with it. Whether that is leaning into a tree, off their knee, some shooting sticks (my favorite) or off a blind bench. I even practice shooting out of a tree stand at different distances.

Lately I have been doing a lot of pine squirrel hunting out of necessity. They are attacking the wood shop looking for winter quarters. I have found two places where they have got behind the facing on the building and are trying to get into the attic. So far I am three for four. I missed one today with my .54 caliber.