T/C Firestorm/777
11-30-2005, 11:51 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: masontown pa USA
Posts: 851
T/C Firestorm/777
Hey fellas, I'm new to the muzzleloading sport, only have one season under my belt. I recently picked up a TC Firestorm (Flintlock), and just wanted to ask a couple ?? about it. Can you use the 777 powder in this gun? I was thinking of trying it and maybe the APP powder, behind some Powerbelt bullets. The powerbelts show well out of my dad's hawken's last year for me, and I have some left over, so I'll start there. I did a search and found out some guys had some issues with the powerbelts behind the 777, but I couldn't figure out if it was powder/bullet issue, or an ignition issue.
If you have any experience with a Firestorm, I'd like to hear from you.
Mikey
If you have any experience with a Firestorm, I'd like to hear from you.
Mikey
11-30-2005, 12:58 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 771
RE: T/C Firestorm/777
With flintlocks you will need to at least use traditional black powder for priming and 5grains BPin the bore and then add your substitute powder.
You will find that substitutes will not ignite reliably for flint priming.
Example: 90grain load would be 5gr BP first and then 85 grain 777.
Frankly if you want reliable consistant ignition, stick with black powder for the flintlock.
You could go with FFFG Black Powder (Swiss is my preferance, but Goex is good). Use the 3FG as your main charge and then grind small amounts of 3FG between your finger tips for priming powder. Or buy 4FG (FFFFG) for priming.
Great source for black powder from 4 pounds on up:
www.powderinc.com
Good luck,
Tahquamenon
You will find that substitutes will not ignite reliably for flint priming.
Example: 90grain load would be 5gr BP first and then 85 grain 777.
Frankly if you want reliable consistant ignition, stick with black powder for the flintlock.
You could go with FFFG Black Powder (Swiss is my preferance, but Goex is good). Use the 3FG as your main charge and then grind small amounts of 3FG between your finger tips for priming powder. Or buy 4FG (FFFFG) for priming.
Great source for black powder from 4 pounds on up:
www.powderinc.com
Good luck,
Tahquamenon
11-30-2005, 01:08 PM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: T/C Firestorm/777
I tried some of the substitute powders as main load charges and found they were not reliable in my Flintlocks. This all started when I bought some Pinnacle 3f and was told it could be used in a flintlock. Well they're right it can, kind of... it will fire, you just are not sure which time it will and how long the hang time will be.
I found that a duplex load worked much better. I dumped 10 grains of Goex 3f down the barrel and then the different substitute powders. It worked, and fired fine, but then you read on all the powder sights.. Due not mix powders.
So after a lot of testing different powders and loads I decided.. if it ain't broke, why fix it. I use Goex 3f & 2f black powder as the main charge and Goex 4f as the pan powder. This way I get consistant fast ignition. I guess a lot of times we are looking for an easier way to get by, and sometimes the easiest of them all is the one we are using right now.
Besides, flintlocks are not all that bad to clean. I take the barrel off and the vent liner out, and you can pump such a volume of water in a water bath through them, it only takes a couple of patches to clean the barrel. The lock would still require all the fine work of making sure it is nice and clean....
Good luck with your Firestorm. I always admired them but went with the T/C Hawkins and Lyman Trade Rifle instead... maybe next rifle.
I found that a duplex load worked much better. I dumped 10 grains of Goex 3f down the barrel and then the different substitute powders. It worked, and fired fine, but then you read on all the powder sights.. Due not mix powders.
So after a lot of testing different powders and loads I decided.. if it ain't broke, why fix it. I use Goex 3f & 2f black powder as the main charge and Goex 4f as the pan powder. This way I get consistant fast ignition. I guess a lot of times we are looking for an easier way to get by, and sometimes the easiest of them all is the one we are using right now.
Besides, flintlocks are not all that bad to clean. I take the barrel off and the vent liner out, and you can pump such a volume of water in a water bath through them, it only takes a couple of patches to clean the barrel. The lock would still require all the fine work of making sure it is nice and clean....
Good luck with your Firestorm. I always admired them but went with the T/C Hawkins and Lyman Trade Rifle instead... maybe next rifle.
11-30-2005, 01:21 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: masontown pa USA
Posts: 851
RE: T/C Firestorm/777
ORIGINAL: cayugad
I tried some of the substitute powders as main load charges and found they were not reliable in my Flintlocks. This all started when I bought some Pinnacle 3f and was told it could be used in a flintlock. Well they're right it can, kind of... it will fire, you just are not sure which time it will and how long the hang time will be.
I found that a duplex load worked much better. I dumped 10 grains of Goex 3f down the barrel and then the different substitute powders. It worked, and fired fine, but then you read on all the powder sights.. Due not mix powders.
So after a lot of testing different powders and loads I decided.. if it ain't broke, why fix it. I use Goex 3f & 2f black powder as the main charge and Goex 4f as the pan powder. This way I get consistant fast ignition. I guess a lot of times we are looking for an easier way to get by, and sometimes the easiest of them all is the one we are using right now.
Besides, flintlocks are not all that bad to clean. I take the barrel off and the vent liner out, and you can pump such a volume of water in a water bath through them, it only takes a couple of patches to clean the barrel. The lock would still require all the fine work of making sure it is nice and clean....
Good luck with your Firestorm. I always admired them but went with the T/C Hawkins and Lyman Trade Rifle instead... maybe next rifle.
I tried some of the substitute powders as main load charges and found they were not reliable in my Flintlocks. This all started when I bought some Pinnacle 3f and was told it could be used in a flintlock. Well they're right it can, kind of... it will fire, you just are not sure which time it will and how long the hang time will be.
I found that a duplex load worked much better. I dumped 10 grains of Goex 3f down the barrel and then the different substitute powders. It worked, and fired fine, but then you read on all the powder sights.. Due not mix powders.
So after a lot of testing different powders and loads I decided.. if it ain't broke, why fix it. I use Goex 3f & 2f black powder as the main charge and Goex 4f as the pan powder. This way I get consistant fast ignition. I guess a lot of times we are looking for an easier way to get by, and sometimes the easiest of them all is the one we are using right now.
Besides, flintlocks are not all that bad to clean. I take the barrel off and the vent liner out, and you can pump such a volume of water in a water bath through them, it only takes a couple of patches to clean the barrel. The lock would still require all the fine work of making sure it is nice and clean....
Good luck with your Firestorm. I always admired them but went with the T/C Hawkins and Lyman Trade Rifle instead... maybe next rifle.
Thanks guys!
Cayugad: I wasen't looking for an easier way, just different.I always swab the bore clean after every shot anyways, so cleaning it or giving it a bath doesn't bother me. I just need to pick up a new can of powder, just thought I'd ask about the 777 stuff. .........that and the fact that TC's website states they designed this gun to shoot pellets had me wondering.
Mikey
11-30-2005, 01:41 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 771
RE: T/C Firestorm/777
I have the Firestorm with the 209 shotgun primer ignition and it does not ignite pellets without a substantial delay. It does ignite loose substitute and black powders very well.
The Firestorm has a little cone shape to the end of the breech plug which is supposed to direct ignition fire into the main charge. They shoot really well with loose substitute and black powder.
You could convert your Flintlock to the 209 ignition and save the flint liner and lock, but you would need to order a new lock and the powder drum assembly which is available from T/C. I think it would cost about $100-150 for the new lock and drum.
www.tcarms.com
Give them a call. They will be happy to help.
The Firestorm has a little cone shape to the end of the breech plug which is supposed to direct ignition fire into the main charge. They shoot really well with loose substitute and black powder.
You could convert your Flintlock to the 209 ignition and save the flint liner and lock, but you would need to order a new lock and the powder drum assembly which is available from T/C. I think it would cost about $100-150 for the new lock and drum.
www.tcarms.com
Give them a call. They will be happy to help.
11-30-2005, 04:40 PM
#6
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: masontown pa USA
Posts: 851
RE: T/C Firestorm/777
ORIGINAL: Tahquamenon
I have the Firestorm with the 209 shotgun primer ignition and it does not ignite pellets without a substantial delay. It does ignite loose substitute and black powders very well.
The Firestorm has a little cone shape to the end of the breech plug which is supposed to direct ignition fire into the main charge. They shoot really well with loose substitute and black powder.
You could convert your Flintlock to the 209 ignition and save the flint liner and lock, but you would need to order a new lock and the powder drum assembly which is available from T/C. I think it would cost about $100-150 for the new lock and drum.
www.tcarms.com
Give them a call. They will be happy to help.
I have the Firestorm with the 209 shotgun primer ignition and it does not ignite pellets without a substantial delay. It does ignite loose substitute and black powders very well.
The Firestorm has a little cone shape to the end of the breech plug which is supposed to direct ignition fire into the main charge. They shoot really well with loose substitute and black powder.
You could convert your Flintlock to the 209 ignition and save the flint liner and lock, but you would need to order a new lock and the powder drum assembly which is available from T/C. I think it would cost about $100-150 for the new lock and drum.
www.tcarms.com
Give them a call. They will be happy to help.
Mike
11-30-2005, 05:00 PM
#7
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: T/C Firestorm/777
I was talking to a person on line that shoots pellets out of their flintlock and they still claim they have the best ignition time if they duplex the load with a little black powder first.
11-30-2005, 06:01 PM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 878
RE: T/C Firestorm/777
I have seen the little graphic T/C does with the "fire storm" ignition and all but just would not feel right using pellets in a sidelock. I like the removable breech plugs very much on those rifles.
How do your rifles shoot with loose powder? Do they sell a wooden stock for them?
How do your rifles shoot with loose powder? Do they sell a wooden stock for them?
12-01-2005, 04:45 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 771
RE: T/C Firestorm/777
[/quote]
I live in PA, and our season runs from late dec. till mid. jan., and it's flintlock only, so I'm a little stuck. We do have a doe season in Oct, and we're allowed to use inlines then, but I bowhunt that time of year! Thanks for the reply though, I'll keep that in mind for future reference. Is it a lot of work to switch them back and forth? Say, I hunt out of state one week, then hunt around home the following week. Other than sighting, is it a pain in the a$$?
Mike
[/quote]
If you need to stick with Flintlock then loose black powder is the way to go. I cannot more highly recommend Swiss Black Powder. Sure it's expensive, but no other black powder comes close in my view in terms of cleanliness, power, consistancy and accuracy. The 3FG Swiss is superb.
If you cannot afford swiss, then Goex 3FG would be your next best bet.
I would also suggest 3FG as your main charge and 4FG for priming.
You will like the the way it shoots. One other thing. The Firestorm has a fast-twist rifling, 1:28" So you will need to be loading either a conical or a saboted projectile for deer hunting. The Hornady 385gr Great Plains Conical shoots excellent from a Firestorm as does the 250 and 300gr Hornady SST and the 240 and 300gr XTP.
The faster rifling will also shoot PRB's very well, you just cannot push them too fast or they will skip the rifling.But can shoot PRB's plenty fast enough for small game or targeting/plinking fun but not for larger game.
On changing the lock and removing the vent-liner and installing a drum. It takes just a bit longer than the time it took for you to read this note. Just a couple of minutes and you have swapped things around. If you did go with a lock and drum conversion, then you would need to work up loads for Flint and 209 arrangments.
But, I would not expect the loads to be that much different. Might find several that shoot almost the exact POI or close enough not to mess with.
If you did not receive a manual with the rifle, contact Thompson/Center and tell them you would like a manual and a parts listing for your Firestorm. They will send you these for free.
Good luck!
Tahquamenon
I live in PA, and our season runs from late dec. till mid. jan., and it's flintlock only, so I'm a little stuck. We do have a doe season in Oct, and we're allowed to use inlines then, but I bowhunt that time of year! Thanks for the reply though, I'll keep that in mind for future reference. Is it a lot of work to switch them back and forth? Say, I hunt out of state one week, then hunt around home the following week. Other than sighting, is it a pain in the a$$?
Mike
[/quote]
If you need to stick with Flintlock then loose black powder is the way to go. I cannot more highly recommend Swiss Black Powder. Sure it's expensive, but no other black powder comes close in my view in terms of cleanliness, power, consistancy and accuracy. The 3FG Swiss is superb.
If you cannot afford swiss, then Goex 3FG would be your next best bet.
I would also suggest 3FG as your main charge and 4FG for priming.
You will like the the way it shoots. One other thing. The Firestorm has a fast-twist rifling, 1:28" So you will need to be loading either a conical or a saboted projectile for deer hunting. The Hornady 385gr Great Plains Conical shoots excellent from a Firestorm as does the 250 and 300gr Hornady SST and the 240 and 300gr XTP.
The faster rifling will also shoot PRB's very well, you just cannot push them too fast or they will skip the rifling.But can shoot PRB's plenty fast enough for small game or targeting/plinking fun but not for larger game.
On changing the lock and removing the vent-liner and installing a drum. It takes just a bit longer than the time it took for you to read this note. Just a couple of minutes and you have swapped things around. If you did go with a lock and drum conversion, then you would need to work up loads for Flint and 209 arrangments.
But, I would not expect the loads to be that much different. Might find several that shoot almost the exact POI or close enough not to mess with.
If you did not receive a manual with the rifle, contact Thompson/Center and tell them you would like a manual and a parts listing for your Firestorm. They will send you these for free.
Good luck!
Tahquamenon
