Angry Beaver

I want to hunt Wisconson's muzzleloader season this year (no scopes) but the only gun I can afford right now is the Wolf ($115 at Scheels). My longest shot would be 75 yards in thick timber. Would the Wolf be a good starter gun until I can get something better? I can't spend a penny more to get something like a NEF Sidekick unfortunately.

heinz57

made in spain ..front and rear sight's made of plastic [el cheapo ] [8D]

missed_another

go for the cva wolf and get started. you have to start somewhere. you can always buy another one later.years ago you may have hadto spend alot to get a good shooting m/l. but that's far from the case now. these cva's really shoot good i may even use mine in the regular rifle season. from what i have seen the more you spend the prettier the gun. i don't need another pretty gun i want one that shoots good. i have a tradtions i that i paid around $200.00 for and i also have a t/c that i paid over $400.00 for and guess what i use the cheap wolf because it shoots the best.

cayugad

The rifle really does not impress me much. Look at it this way, if you wait another year you could afford something of better quality. I just will not endores the purchase of BPI products anymore.

Start watching the auction sites and see if you can find something better. Sportman's guide has a heck of a sale on a Knight Disc Elite, but they are out of your price range.

If you really want to get hunting, look for a CVABobcat at one of the local sporting good super stores. Load it with 80 grains of FFgor less and shoot roundball. I think they would do you just as good. Then after you save for a while and still want an inline, then get something of quality like a Knight or Thompson Center.

missed_another

just remember that about half of the price for the knight or thompson centeris justfor the stock and the name. makes them look nice butdoes very little to helpthem shoot. don't get me wrong they are very nice rifles but you do not need to spend 4 or 5 hundred dollars on a m/l to get one that shoots good. if you need a very inexpensive one rightnow the one cayugad is talking aboutyou can find atwal-mart. wal-mart is clearing the bobcats out for $45.00. tough to beat that price.

AQUATECH

SOME LIKE CVA-----SOME DON'T. I SHOOT A CVA BEARTOOTH
MAGNUM. IT DIDN'T COST ME AN ARM OR LEG. IT SHOOTS
FLAT, IT SHOOTS EASY. AND LETS FACE IT DEAD IS DEAD
IT DOEN'T MATTER IF THE DEATH WAS CAUSED BY A SINGLE
SHOT 22 OR AN OVER-PRICED SAKO CUSTOM 270.
I KILLED ONE DEER LAST YEAR WITH MY EL-CHEAPO &
HAVE ALREADY TAKEN TWO DOES THIS YEAR IN EARLY
ML SEASON HERE IN KY. AND WILL USE IT THIS COMING
SAT. FOR REGULAR GUN SEASON. SO YOU WILL HEAR
SEVERAL OPNIONS JUST REMEMBER; YOU CAN FISH OFF
THE DOCK WITH A CANE-POLE OR IN A $25,000 BASS
BOAT EITHER WAY YOU GET TO FISH. GOOD LUCK JUST
MY TWO CENTS.

MichaelH

Quote:

ORIGINAL: cayugad

The rifle really does not impress me much.

Cayugad,
I know you've stated this recently, but the ironic thing is that one of your older post (below) made me decide that the Beartooth or Wolf would do well for me. I wanted a light weight accurate rifle with a budget. I like the break-open design and nothing pretty needed. I'm shooting mine for the first time today and will post how it shoots.

My first impression is: 1) Cheap plastic sights and trigger guard (Don't care about sights w/ scope.) The Wolf should have fiber optic sights, which I believe are metal. 2) The gun with medium rings doesn't have that perfect fit for where I naturally rest my cheek on the stock. I believe the Optima series would fix that with the raised stock. It lines up well w/o a scope. 3) Alluminum ram rod seems fairly stiff, but haven't used it yet. 4) Exactly what I expected for $110, but from what I read, it will be more than expected for $110 for it's accuracy.

Mike

"I was asked by a friendto help their son figure out how to shoot a black powder rifle. The young man also asked me what he needed to buy, as this is his first and only rifle. He used to watch me shoot many years ago when he was much younger, and I guess must have been impressed with black powder rifles. I told him I would be glad to help out.

We scheduled our shoot for today. My impressions of the rifle were very good. The Beartooth was light weight and actually well balanced. It locked up nice. The hammer was good. The trigger pull was not excessive by any means. Granted it did not have the fit and finish of a Knight or Thompson Center rifle, but overall for the money, it looked like it would be a very good little rifle.

He was shooting Remington Kleenbore Primers, Triple Se7en FFg, 240 grain CheapShots, 240 grain XTP's, and 245 grain Powerbelt Aero Tips. All the loads were shot with 80 grains of powder, which I felt for his first time out, was plenty for the young man.

It was warm but very windy. For that reason I suggested we shoot only at the 25 yard line to see what projectiles grouped well and get the sights somewhat on. The T/C Cheapshots did real well. They grouped very nice. The XTP's could have been better but this was at the end of the day and he was complaining about a sore shoulder. I really did not think there was all that much recoil to the rifle at all. The Powerbelts did exceptional. He shot a three shot group, all shots touching, dead center bull. Needless to say the young man was very pleased with that.

I told him to bring it over to the house on a not so windy day and we would shoot some more. Overall, I can see why the Beartooth owners like their rifles. If I had a young man around that needed a rifle, I would consider on of them for him.

Does any Beartooth owners have some other loads I could suggest this this young man that he might find acceptable in his rifle?"

_____________________________

Cayugad..

cayugad

Mike... You are right. I used to think the Beartooth, Wolf, and all the low end BPI rifles were a great way to get into the sport. I own a $89.00 CVA Staghorn. It is a great shooting rifle.How much lower could I get? For what people are spending for the rifle they are an impressive rifle. These things will really shoot. My Staghorn for instance will shoot as well as my Knights or Thompson Centers from 100 yards in.

The BPI brand of rifle does not impress me much anymore, purelyfrom a reason of safety. For that reason alone, I can not endorse a rifle that someone might get hurt shooting. The recent last event of a Kodiak Rifle blowing a barrel and injuring a shooter waskind of the final straw for me. In thepast, I'd readreports ofOptima, Winchester 150's, Magbolts, and Eclipse barrel failures, and it bothered me. What do all these makes of rifle have in common, BPI barrels.Since I own and shoot a CVA Staghorn with a BPI barrel, I guess I was looking for any reason to justify the barrel failures. I used to always consider, operator error as the reason. The operator must have done something wrong, against the recommendations of the manufacturer to cause these catastrophic failures of the barrel. Ifinally decided that there are just too many BPI barrels doing this. How often do you read ofa Knight or Thompson Center blowing a barrel? The last Knight rifle I read about blew a barrel because the user loaded smokeless powder. Not to bright an idea there, and I could understand why the barrel failed in that case.

I'm not saying that the Beartooth or the CVA Wolf will not shoot some excellent groups. They do. The Beartooth I shot was well balanced. It was not in the class of balance of say my Knight Disc rifle. Overall I liked the rifle. But it brings me back to the barrel issue. The friend who I helped sight in his rifle bought that rifle without any recommendation from me. I was called and asked to help sight in a rifle and it happened to be a Beartooth Magnum. And for the money he spent he seemed pleased. And for the money he spent (around $100.00 if I remember right) it was an impressive little rifle. I have heard in fact,that he took a deer during out doe season with the rifle and about 35 yards shooting a 245 grain Powerbelt and dropped it where it stood. Since he shoots Triple Se7en FFg powder I told him his rifle limit was 85 grains. It is what he used to shoot the deer with I was told. He got complete pass through.

It all boils down to feelings of guilt on my part. I used to consider all the reports of BPI failures as nothing to be concerned about. I owned one. I shoot one. I hated the idea that my rifle might not be safe. I used to recommend them to anyone looking for an inexpensive way to get into the black powder sport. Face it the more in the sport the better for all of us, the way I look at it. As more people started buying the Wolf, Beartooth, etc. and I then began reading posts of 3 pelletsor worse yet 150 grains of loose powder (which is not allowed according to your manual) and this projectile. I really began to get concerned. I worried about barrels blowing because of the pressures some of these loads were creating, and people getting hurt or worse yet, killed. I strongly advised anyone against 3 pellet loads. Even though some of the rifles out there shoot excellent with that strong a charge.That fact of the BPI barrel issues does not take away the fact, CVA, Traditions, and other BPI rifles makers out there produce a great shooting rifle, which is well balanced, and for the money a heck of a deal. They are impressive rifles for the money.

To all the owners of BPI rifles which include Traditions, CVA, New Frontier, Winchester and many others.. I really hope you read and follow the directions of the manufacturer. (Of course the Kodiak owner from my understanding was shooting a considered safe load according to the manufacturer when the rifle blew. Although there is no confirmation on that fact.) I personally limit the powder charge of my Staghorn to 100 grains of 2f or less powder and follow the projectile weight guidelines now. Granted it is a magnum rifle. It will shoot 150 grains of pellets (not loose powder - check your manual) but it will never see such a load as long as I own it. I wish more information about the cause of the barrel failures would come forth. I really wish BPI would end this barrel pressure issue once and for all. Granted testing the barrels in the United States after they are being imported will add additional costs to the rifle. But it might end this issue once and for all.

missed_another

i would worry more about getting hurt driving my car down the road than getting hurt from a BPI barrel failure. it can happen with any rifle that is not operated properly. do you really think they would be marketing these rifles if they were not tested for safety.you can not even begin to imagine the liability in a case like this.

missed_another

hay michaelh..... have your friend try the hornady great plains .385 gr. HB-HP lubed bullet.i use90 grains of goex clear shot. there is only 1 inch differance between a clean and fouled barrel with these bullets. and there is no sabot plastic to shrub out of your barrel.a fewpasses with a cleaning patch and it's clean again.