200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

I'm going to FINALLY shoot the Omega tomorrow. I don't expect to reach this distance right away, and certainly not anytime this week, but with 100 grains of Pyrodex Pellets and a 250-grain TC Shockwave Sabot, is 200 yards out of the question eventually? If so, what would 150 grains of Pyrodex do to flatten out the trajectory. I've always heard of 200-yard capabilites of modern muzzleloaders, is there any truth to it? If my setup will work, can I sight-in at 100 or should I go 150 or what? Should I go down to a 200-grain Shockwave? I'm only hunting whitetails. Thanks!

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

200 yd. performance is easily had with an Omega .50 muzzleloader. I use 110 grs. Triple Se7en ffg over a 200 gr. T/C Shockwave sighted 3" high @ 100 yds and that puts it about 3" low @ 200 yards. And the accuracy is excellent with this load! Give it a try, I think you'll be very pleased.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Do you think 150 grains of powder could have the same effect with a 250-grain Shockwave?

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Yes - the 250 Shockwave will beover 2200 fps with three fifty grain Pyrodex pellets in your Omega. I use two fifties and a thirty with excellent results - get around 2050 fps. Either of these loads are good 200 yard performers, as is the 200 Shockwave with 110 of T7. I would probably try all three of them and use whichever groups the best. Good luck. Roskoe.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Here's the thing about shooting 200 yds, and trust me I've extensively studied this. You can do it, but the best way to do it will be with 150 grains of powder.

Here's the thing about 150 grains of powder: Most guys claim they shoot it which they might, but the thing is, they are probably not burning all of that powderin their barrell by the time the bullet leaves the barrell.

This is the way to do it: To shoot 150 Grains of powder in pellett for you MUST shoot Triple 7- Here's the thing: Shoot the 30 grain pelletts. Shoot 5 of the 30 grain pellets, not 3 fifties.

The reason behind this is because with five thirties they will all burn because there is more space inbetween the powder pellets so the ignition will light all of the powder by the time it leaves the barrel.

If you use the three fifty grain pellets they don't all get completely fired. We've chrono'd our guns, (I shoot a t/c encore) and the five thirties show 100-130fps increase. You should be able to get close to 2400 fps, maybe not quite but close. Make sure you use the triple 7.

Happy hunting

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

I have never tried the Triple 7 pellets; but have been pretty happy with the Pyrodex pellets. Accuracy and velocity are both good. I wonder if the same principle applies to the Pyrodex pellets . . . . a stack of 30's will burn better than the same weight of 50"s?

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

I would worry less about trajectory and more about accuracy at those distances. If you get any kind of accuracy out of a 250 grn bullet and 150 grns of powder I will be surprised.

I had to go with a heavier longer bullet with a better BC to get the accuracy I wanted at those distances. I suggest looking at the Precision Rifle bullets if you want that kind of range. And pellets probably won't cut it. Loose powder will let you work up a much better load for accuracy. Faster is not always more accurate.

Paul

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

I agree about the accuracy and about the 150 not being neccessary. Interesting about the 5-30's vs the 3-50's, may have to try that.

I just spent some time shooting the 250 ShockWaves yesterday. I was shooting 100gr of 777 2f and comparing it to 100gr of BM3. Both loads printed within an inch of each other at 50 with the 777 being a little tighter. I wish I had a chonograph to check the speed (anyone clocked these loads?), I'm guessingit's around1850fps. I wasn't seeing any big advantages, accuracy wise, in the BM3 so I moved out to 100 with the 777 load and checked the grouping. Out of 3 shots, 1 was a flyer that I pulled and knew it, the other 2 were 1" high centered in the same hole 1/8" group. After that I moved out to 200 to fine tune/check what it would do. Printed a couple of inches right and 10" low 1.5" group. BTW, I didn't swab between shots and only cleaned the bore once due to plastic fouling during the 20 shots I shot. If I adjust to 3" high at 100 it should be about 6" low at 200. I think that should work just fine.

I also tried the BM3 with the 460 No Excuses bullet. My standard load with it is 90gr 777 2f, 777 at 50 - 1/4" group, BM3 at 50 - erratic, maybe 10" group. I will be doing some more testing with the BM3 but so far in my gun it seems more consistent with the smaller bullets.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

David - that's some pretty good shooting. I have also gotten very good groups at 200 yards with the 250 Shockwaves - pretty consistent 4 to 5 inches with the 130 gr. Pyrodex pellet load.

Did you notice any difference in recoil between T7 and BM3? It is my understanding that 100 gr. of BM3 is the equal, in terms of velocity, to 120 gr. of T7 or 150 gr. of Pyrodex. I'm still trying to get my hands on some without coughing up the hazmat charge.

By early next week, I hope to have a terminal report on the 250 Shockwave. We are going to the ranch in New Mexico over the weekend to try and fill some cow elk tags.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

I didn't notice much difference in the recoil but I'm not that recoil sensitive. After all the reports of BM3 working better with heavier bullets, I was shocked by the results with the 460's. It does make a lot of white smoke but at nearly twice the price of 777 and the difficulty of getting it, I'm not impressed enough to switch yet. More testing will give me a better picture before a final decision.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

If your gun will shoot em (and most Encores/Omegas will) I say stick with 150 loads for anything over 150yds. The 250SST is THE bullet to use and be sure you have the black MMP sabots (they should come with the bullets if you buy the Hornady box instead of the TC Shockwave package). The key too 150grn charges and longranges is in the sabot. And of course they will be TOUGHER to load and seat properly but you must have that much pressure for a proper seal or otherwise you won't get a true clean burn (that's why so many guys have trouble making 150s shoot).

Also I recommend trashcaning ALL pellets. I know they are convenient but you simply wont get the consistency or cleaner burn of a granular load. I despised changing from pellets but was shown the truth by a Knight factory rep lastyear in Wyoming at a mfgrs event in Cody. (LOL well I sorta paid attention, I now shoot granular powder but it's Vhitavouri N110 in my Savage!)

With a properly shooting 150grn 250SST load you should be able to sight dead on at 100 which should leave you about 4" low at 200 and believe it or not, 16" low at 300 with enough killing power for deersized animals. I would hold the line on elk at about 225 or 250 unless you go up too the 300SST (which is what I shoot in my Savage). Run a simple brush through the bore after each shot and clean it after each half dozen and you will realize 300yd potential. Stick with 100grn loads and 200yds is your TOPS, they reallly start falling after 150yds with only 100grns.

Good luck and let us know how you do,
RA

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Last deer of the season last year- small6 pt, about 140 lbs.
I was shooting my Optima (26" barrel) with the 250g shockwaves and 90g T-7 (2f). I watched him for a good while and when he presented me with a good standing-stillshot (perfect conditions) I took it -- at 192 yds. (ranged him with the rangefinder). He dropped in his tracks - never took another step. The bullet blew through the very top of his shoulder blade, crushed the bottom halfof his vertebrae, and lodged in the opposite shoulder, just under the skin. I held a bit too high thinking that the bullet would drop more than it did (I had been practicing at 150 yds with great accuracy). The bullet retained it's mass and expanded extremelywell. I guess what I'm trying to say is that one doesn't need to subject himself tothe massrecoil of a 150g load in order to successfully make a 200yd harvest. Had the bullet hit the boiler room, I feel confident that it would have blown through both sides with little effort.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Finally got to shoot the Omega tonight..............wow:)

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Illini_Sportsman .... I take it the experience was a good one then?

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Indeed it was. I zeroed it at 35 yards because I had limited daylight. I'll pinpoint it at 100 withinthe week, but this thing's accuracy right out of the box and with a new scope on it without a single shot with the iron sights amazed me. When I say zero, I mean it. My last shot nailed the bulls-eye like it was point-blank. Overall just the way it shoots was sweet. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can call these weapons primitive just because they are muzzleloaders.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

I have a question for bowtech die hard you talked about 200yds with 150grns and maybe attaining 2400fps but you din't say what load only the charge? Thanks

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

you want speed, power, and accuracy out of the Omega's and other rifles I would go with a 250 grain Shockwave. They should shoot real flat, hold way out at distances, and still have excellent knock down power. 150 grain loads are possible, but usually they find that with pellets. If your going to shoot loose Triple Se7en or Pyrodex you might want to look into the 110-120 grain range. The speed might not be there but it should be all the bullet you would need out to those distances.

I was shooting one afternoon at a paper plate at 150 yards with my Black Diamond XR. I was surprised at how easy it was to hit that paper plate off a set of shooting sticks. I think it took me two shots to figure out the drop but after that the rest was easy. I never did try to get back further then that.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Hey I have a question I forgot to ask though. My friend was with me and after we bulls-eyed it at 35, we backed way off to probably a little over 100. He shot and completely missed the target. Is this just shooter error, cause he said he thought he may have flinched, but wasn't real sure. The bullet wouldn't drop that much between 35 and 100-120 yards, would it? 100 grain Pyrodex, 250 grain Shockwave.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Ra are you sure those drop figures are right.You would have to be getting 3000 fps to get a 4 in @200 and 16 in @300 yds sighted dead on at 100. shooting 150 grs and a 250 sst
Or am I reading it wrong
I am getting 2440 fps average with a 250 sst and my actual drops are 0@100,7.1@200 and 26.8@300yds
Been shooting quit a bit at 300 yds this year useing the 250sst
Below is some groups with different loads that I shot wed.at 300 yds.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

running the ballistics on that load for being sighted in at 35 yards it showed a -0.6 inch drop at 100 yards. I think a 1/2 inch difference would not have made that much of a off shot. I suspect he felt it was going to kick him bad and flinched....

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Relative to the Black Mag'3 vs. 777. I have shot a comparison of the two but the 777 was ffg which was a somewhat unfair comparison as the BM3 is really fffg at least in appearance. I got considerably higher velocity out of 100gr. BM3 vs. 100gr. ffg 777 with 300gr. bullets in Harvester sabots out of a stainless .50 Omega. The ascorbic acid powders like BM3, APP, and Goex Pinnacle seem to work better if the compression of the powder is firm and if the barrel length is long. Those powders light off a little slower than 777 and require more barrel length to develop maximum performance. Usually the heavier bullets help to develop the pressure required to make maximum velocity. With 100gr. volume BM3 and a 209 Winchester primerunder a 300gr. bullet I chronographed a three shot average of 2004fps at 7000ft. altitude out of my long barrel Omega. The recoil with BM3 seems to me to be more like black powder and somewhat easier to take than the sharp recoil of 777 which seems more like a smokeless sharp initial hit. I have seen comments to the contrary but this is what I experienced. 90gr. Black Mag'3 under 300gr. SST shot completely through medium sized cow elk at 90 yards (double lung shot no major bone).

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

Good to know. I think I'm going to set this thing on a gnat's @$$ at 100 today. Thanks for all your help cayugad, you've been here to answer my ridiculous questions from the start. Didn't go unnoticed.

RE: 200-yard Performance: Attainable?
 

great information in this thread!!!!!! Thanks to everyone who posted.