Magnum Roundball Loads
 

I tried some high performance roundball loads today. Using the .440 Hornady lead roundball, and seating it in a MMP.50 caliber sabot made for .429/.430 bullets (as described a couple of weeks back by LaneNebraska); I tried loading this ahead of 110 grains of fffg T7, 120 grains of ffg T7, and 130 gr. of Pyrodex pellets.

Not too impressive. At 60 yards, using a 12X Leupold, all loads shot around 2" to 2.5". I guess roundballs were never meant to be pushed at 2,000 fps!

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

That's kind of pushing them hard there Roskoe :D . I guess a person just has to try though...

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Actually that's not the case all.......I push my .440's and .490's over 2000fps all the time with my hunting loads and they're extremely accurate...the difference is probably because ofblack powder,pillow ticking patches,and1:48"+ 1:66" twist barrels

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Not out of an ill fitting sabot, but my 54 likes 135FFF and a patched ball.

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

I thought about this on the way home . . . . The sabot is shaped to provide an optimum fit with a flat base spitzer bullet. Maybe under all that heat and pressure the sabot is trying to mold itself to the round ball shape, losing its integrity in the process. Of the 12 shots fired, I never found a single fired sabot between the bench and the target.

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

It was a fast twist that probabally got ya. Round balls will spin out of control at high speeds when the twist is to fast.

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Roskoe - Wow, that's smokin' fast. I take it you were shooting them out of a 1:28 twist rifle. Correct? I was speaking to a fella at TC today about the Black Diamond today about what kind of performance I could expect from various loads. I had a pretty good idea just from the other MLs I've owned and reading this forum of late, but I wanted to see how he would respond. In sum, he basically said that the 1:28 twist rifles are designed to primarily shoot various sabot loads. If one happens to find a conicle that shoots well in a 1:28 twist rifle...well, they should consider themselves lucky because most conicles or RB loads won't hit squat out of that fast of a twist.

Interestingly, he said that TC is strongly considering dropping the Black Diamond (both barrel versions) model next year and replacing it solely with the Omega. He GUESSED TC is basing their decision on stronger public demand for the Omega coupled with the fact that their profit margin is greater with the Omega (fewer moving parts than with the Black Diamond). Told him that I still shoot my Firehawk that I purchased 10 years ago (now cleaner than ever thanks to the suggestions from this board:D) and felt that it handles conicles, RBs, and sabots overall much better than my Encore due to the fact that it has a 1:38 twist.

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

These loads were out of my newstainlessOmega. It appears to have the same 1:28 twist barrel as my Black Diamonds. I have read, but not experienced personally, that round balls shoot pretty well out of fast twist guns with very low charges - like 50 grains or less. This thing with the .50/.430 sabot was on this board a couple of weeks ago. It is my understanding that they were also using fairly moderate charges - like 70 grains - and getting great accuracy. Couldn't resist trying to warm it up a bit . . . .

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

I would have to disagree with the T/C fella you spoke to about shooting conicals out of a 1:28 twist. Many of the folks on this board, including me, have had very good results shooting heavy conicals out of 1:28 T/C rifles. I use a 410 gr. Hornady Great Plains with excellent results. A number of folks rave about the 460 Gr. No Excuses concicals. And the Powerbelts are technically a conical - they shoot great in quite a few fast twist guns. Maybe the 1:48 twist is optimum, but the 1:28 can produce great groups with the heavy slugs.

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

When I was talking on the phone one afternoon with a Thompson Center representative, he told me the same thing. That the Thompson Center inline rifles were more inclined to shoot the sabot projectiles then the conicals. I then told him about some of my experiences shooting No Excuse Conicals, R.E.A.L. conicals, and some Maxiball I had around the house. He then agreed that, yes they will shoot conical projectiles well in some cases, but they really shine when shooting the sabot loads.

So far out of all my inlines, I have not found one yet that will not hold an exceptional group with conicals. I ordered some of those sub bases that Roskoe talked about and I am going to give them a try with some of the different loads. I also ordered some of the crush rib sabots, and some 410 Great Plains Conicals. I really like trying different loads. I am not so sure I want to push the Great Plains as hard as Roskoe did, but time will tell...

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Would someone with a 1:66 twist .50 caliber do me a favor? Try the load discussed in the original post . . . I'm very interested as to whether it was the twist or the extra heat/pressure on the sabot. I'm even willing to mail a tester some sabots and .440 round balls. I can't close the page on this one until I know which issue caused theaccuracy to go south. Thanks. Roscoe.

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Roskoe....Its no problem to push a round ball up to 2000 fps....The problem is you don't have the correct barrel to do so...I used to load 100-140 gr loads of fff and ff Goex in my .45 and .54 flinters...but I had 1-66 and 1-72 barells with .012 rifling...and put hornets nesting between powder and ball to prevent patch burnout...These rifles also had 42 and 38 inch barrels....I'm assuming that you are using an inline with shallow (button rifling) and shorter barrels, with probably 1-28 rifling....these rifles prefer a conical or saboted bullet...

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Yes - I have a 1:28 T/C barrel. So its all about the fast twist, and not about the sabot? My understanding was that the round ball was skidding down the rifling of guns like mine at anything above 50 grains of powder. The sabots don't skid in these guns - why would they do so with a round ball inside the sabot instead of a jacketed bullet?

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Cayugad - You wrote, "I ordered some of those sub bases that Roskoe talked about..." Perhaps I missed it, but what sub bases are you referring to?:eek: Was this discussed in another thread? Please share if you have a moment....

Thank you.

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Hold the fort, after doing a little Googling, I came across the following link for the MMP sub bases that Cayugad and Roskoe were discussing. Hasanyone had any positive experiences with these or is it just slick marketing?

http://www.gunweek.com/2004/feature0610.html

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

From above link:

" Finding a suitable sub-base for the popular .50 caliber is relatively easy. For the past couple of years, a number of Savage Model 10ML II shooters have simply been cutting the gas seal from the rear of a 28-gauge Winchester "AA" plastic shotgun wad, then loading just this cup over the powder charge. The sabot and bullet are then seated right down on top of this. The arrangement works very well, allowing these shooters to maintain great accuracy even when the weather turns hot."

Hmmmmm....wonder how well the home-made 28-gauge sub-base would perform when shooting conicals. Could this base replace using acouple of Wonder Wads? Is there a need to purchase the MMP sub-bases at all with this easy option available??:eek:

Time to pick up some AA 28-gauge wads and hit the range!!

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

I use em with sabots and love em with 150gr loads. Really makes a difference.

RE: Magnum Roundball Loads
 

Hunter John - if you go back into the archives far enough, I think you will find that the MMP sub bases evolved from folks using 28 guage shotgun wads with the petals cut off.In the Winchester line, you want to use the pink ones, not the red ones. The MMP sub base is a better mousetrap, IMO.