Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Hey everybody, I'm new to black powder hunting. I come from a background of hog hunting with pistols and some bowhunting. I came across the rifle at my mother-in-law's house and knew it was a Whitworth, most likely a reproduction. It has barrel markings that appear to say "RRMOORE" and something like, "CORTLAND" under it and "No 1172" to the right of it. Has anyone seen one of these before or have any information on it? I don't plan on using it, but I'd love to know some history on it. I've looked through all information I can find (internet and otherwise) and can't find anything on this particular rifle. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

nifty looking rifle tsi. I think you have an original rifle, not a repro. I can't find anything on the net either. But it is pretty obvious the it was made by an R. R. Moore from Cortland, NY.
The stock looks like it is in pretty good condition. A bit of pitting on the metal it looks like. What cal. is it and is it flint or percussion?

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Hi TSI I don't know a ton about origional rifles but I am afraid you have one. A picture that also shows the whole rifle will help identify it.

I will direct you to a site called Muzzleloadingforum.com and have you sign up and ask in a coulpe of the forums if anyone know what you have. A warning though although we can talk about any m/l here you can only talk about traditional guns there. I still visit the site quite a bit though nice people for the most part with a few well I would not consider camp company.

I did not notice a date on the rifle or do I know whether or not it is a flinter I would sugest using the flint or percussion forums which ever applies or even the building bench those guys know a ton about the real deals they build replicas.

I look forward to finding out what it is I will look for your thread on the forums. If anyone knows what it is it's these guys.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

I'm not sure if it's percussion or flint, or the caliber. I just happened across the rifle. I've put more photos at http://www.victorbrant.com/whitworth for anyone who's interested. I can go take more photos tomorrow if need be. Again, thanks for your help!

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Trust me if you want to know what it is visit the forum I posted. They are real good at identifying old rifles.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Wow a rear action .32. Go to the percussion forum and post the pics for Liver Eating Johnson. He has built guns like that. That gun looks shootable and may be homemade.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Thank you. I posted on the forum you mentioned. So, you believe it's a .32 rear action? What does that mean in terms of its age and origin? Any idea? Thanks again!

Edit: If you'd like to follow the other thread, it is at http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB16&Number=16275 7&Searchpage=1&Main=162757&Words=& topic=1&Search=true#Post162757

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

If it is a real origional it is worth money. Hell I think it is still worth money whether it is an origional or not. What a great looking rifle.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Did I miss something in the pics? How did you determine .32 cal? Looks as if you could well be right, but just wanted to know how you knew?? :)

False muzzle and appears to have the true Whitworth octagonal rifling system. That would put it sometime after ~1860 or so, but it could have been built much more recently. I would guess about 1885...

Whitworth bore with a percussion action that looks more like a Tryon. Given the false muzzle, I would think it was intended more as a target rifle than a hunting gun. Have you measure that barrel across the flats? Rifle's weight?

http://www.eldreds.lotfind.com/catal...&ord=1&row=501 has a listing for a combo rifle/shotgun by the same maker. Perhaps someone at that aution house could help you with valuation.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

I'm not sure what you mean by measuring across the flats. How is that done? I will weight it as soon as I can, however. Thanks!

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Found a bit more on Moore - edited previous post. Across the flats, just measure from flat side to flat side in what would be a straight line across the barrel. Looks like you could measure from one side of the barrel to the other just above where it sits in the stock.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

edit
Under beat me to it

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Great find! This gunmaker appears to have been rather shortlived and didn't create many weapons with his name on them. I'm not going to fire this weapon, nor do I plan on selling it, but it would be nice to know exactly what it is and what it is worth. Thank you!

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Octagon barrels have flat sides. which are referred to as "the flats" In other words, how thick is the barrel from one flat to the opposite one?

This is obviously a percussion target rifle, either a Schutzen for offhand shooting, or perhaps a benchrest gun. I conclude this from the fact that it has a hammer & nipple arrangement for the back-action lock, double-set triggers, an aperture rear sight and what appears to be a target sight on the front, as well as having a false muzzle.

It DOES NOT have Whitworth rifling-Whitworth rifling does not have grooves between the hex surfaces! This is probably a slug shooter rather than a round-ball rifle, due to having a false muzzle. Measure the twist. I would date CA1845 to perhaps 1860.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

I did notice in my photos the octagonal pattern appears to only be in the false muzzle and not the barrel itself. I'm a student and don't have much time to take it to gun shops to get an idea of what exactly it is, but I would subscribe to your theory much more than it being a sniper rifle. Heck, the only reason I used that was because to the untrained eye it resembles one. Thanks again!

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

IF the bore and breech plug are in good shape, it should be shootable. It is a treasure either way!

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Yep, good eye El. The false muzzle threw me with that octagonal boring. Does appear the main barrel has a normal hole and standard rifling. My bad.

But he's closer'n he was to learnin' sumpin about that gun. :D

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

(Actually, the Whitworth rifling is a hexagon shape (6 sides) not eight as it would be if octagonal......)

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

and that false muzzle is hexa instead of octa. Surest way to get someone to chime in is to post some misinformation. Thanks for helping the man out.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Absolutely - I meant hexagonal not octagonal. Good catch. I plan on scouring antique rifle books today to see if I can find more information. If/when I do, I'll be sure to post the results. Who knows, maybe somebody else is searching for information on it!

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Yep! My Bad! Sorry about that!

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

That site makes mentions of a commander (J.V. Moore) and his troops, collectively referred to as "Moore's Rifles." While I don't see the tie in, it's possible I'm missing it. Thanks for the link!

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

There was a British firearms maker by the name of William Moore. I believe he migrated to the state of New York in his latter years (Google info, no independent knowledge here! :eek:). Then there was a company by the name of John P Moore &Sons - http://www.lesserbooks.com/cgi-bin/lesser/18169.html- as best I can determine from that webpage. Perhaps RR Moore was part of that same family of gunmakers?

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

I looked in the latest edition of Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and at least three other books on blackpowder rifles and antique firearms. I came up with nothing, other than learning the gun is almost certainly a target rifle. Other than that, I'm stumped. I have no idea of its origins or worth.

RE: Anyone seen this rifle before?
 

Contact that auction house reference in an earlier post, they surely have some means of valuation. Also, you might contact the chamber of commerce or the mayor of Cortland, NY [email protected] http://www.cortland.org/as either might be able to link you to some historical records of relevance. http://www.1890house.org/