dog1

Ok all you muzzleloader experts, help me.
I just got into ML last year, was using pyrodex and 777 pellets. This year I bought a pound of 777. Today I got my powder scales out and measured out 85 grns of 777, and then 100 grns of same. When I got the scales right for 100 grns of 777, I then got out two (2) 777 pellets, each was 50 grns for a total of 100 grns. As I said, I had the scales set for 100 grns of 777 granular, when I put the two (2) pellets (each 50 grns) on the scale, they wouldn't move the scale, indicating that they weighed less than the granular 777.
I'm new to ML, but not reloading, so what gives. Is the difference, that the two (2) pellets of powder are more compressed. Need some guidance before I go any farther.

Thank You,
dog1

cayugad

All black powder and substitutes are measured by volume. Be very careful getting a scale out and thinking you can measure 100 grains and shoot it. There is a big difference. You could injure your self, others around you or your rifle.. Instead take a Black Powder Powder Measure you purchase, and by volume measure out 100 grains of the powder of your choice. Then weigh that on your scale. If you want to duplicate that weight, that's fine... have at it. But the weight by volume and actual weight are not the same. If you use a powder measure and cut the charge with a funnel loader or by knifing the charge you will be surprised how close you come to the same volume each and every time. A powder measure is all you need to get the charges the same. Although if you want to take the time to weigh out the charges, who am I to say .... just be sure you weigh according to volume.

Also remember in pellet form, pyrodex and Triple Se7en (in a perfect world) are equal in strength not in weight. In loose form, Triple Se7en is 15% stronger then Pyrodex RS or black powder so you must adjust your loads accordingly. So if you were shooting 100 grains of Triple Se7en pellets, then 85 grains of loose Triple Se7en should be close to your other load. You will have to play with the loose powder to get the exact strength you had, but you can fine tune the rifle much better with the loose powder.

I'm glad you brought this up. Again, measure by volume not by weight.... Be safe and have a lot of fun.

MLKeith

I think this got covered but just to be sure here goes: When they decided to make 777 in pellet form they held back on the amount of energy in the pellets to more closely compare with Pyrodex pellets so someone would not load three 50gr. equivalent 777 pellets where they had been using three 50gr. equivalent Pyrodex pellets and blow something up. So 100gr. equivalent 777 pellets do not have the same energy as 100gr. equivalent 777loose powder and as such would not weigh the same even if the weights were accurate for those two forms of the same powder. I agree that weighed powder can be used in muzzleloaders and as a reloader I tend to weigh my charges but they are weighed according to a standard which was established with a measured by volume base check of several volume measurements and then averaged for weight. Measure by volume is the correct method and weighing is only a secondary method and the weight mustbe established by a valuefound by volume measurement. Smokeless powder is measured by weight and muzzleloader powder is measured by volume these are not the same type of powder and do not have anything in common other than the ability to move a projectile up the barrel.

dog1

MlKeithk anc cayucad,


At this very moment, I apologize. A long time friend was buried today at 10 a.m. in Bastrop, Tx. I honestly don't know what to do to make this rifle shoot. I'll wait a while and reread your post then decide what I need to do.

Thank You,
dog1

Wolfhound76

Unless you know what your doing you can seriously hurt yourself using weighed charges.

You need a volumetric powder measurer and a flask.
Powder measurer

Powder Flask

MLKeith

I'm not too sure what you mean that you do not know what to do to make the rifle shoot. If you are getting bad results then give us a little more information (rifle make model, bullets used, primers etc.). Apparently you have only used 777 pellets in the past and have decided to switch to loose 777 powder. Is the powder ffg or fffg? If you mean that you do not want to try shooting the rifle with loose powder until you get your head on straight then we can help with that too. You need to be a little more specific in what you need for help and we will be there. Personally I do not shoot 777 but I think 100gr. volume load of 777 is a pretty heavy load and you might get better results with 80gr. or something close to that (again we need to know if the 777 is ffg or fffg and what weight bullet you are trying to shoot). PS: Where in Georgia are you? I have a good friend in Milledgeville.

NVMIKE

O.K......black powder = volume measure smokeless powder = weight measure. Now....can you measure the black powder w/ the little scoops that you used to get w/ your reloading kits? or are their volumes based on the volume you need to get the particularWEIGHT charge you need?

driftrider

Do NOT load your rifle with 100gr of T7 measured by weight! Like others have said, that is a BAD idea and a recipe for disaster.

That being said, you CAN, if you want to create perfectly consistant loads, use a volumetric black powder measure to throw whatever black powder equivalent charge you want to shoot (100gr by volume, for instance), and then pour that charge onto your powder pan and weigh it. Note the actual weight of the charge as poured from your volumetric BP measure, and then you can duplicate that weight using your scale. This is the only safe way to measure BP substitutes by weight.

The opposite it true, as you know, with smokeless powder. Smokeless powder data is given by weight, but smokeless powder charges can be safely measured by volume as long as the volume of the measure is calibrated to only hold that given weight of powder. I shoot a Savage 10ML-II, and I use smokeless powder exclusively, and I generally weight my charges at home and pour them into plastic waterproof vials (that I bought from Randy Wakeman, very handy for smokeless muzzleloading). However, I have experimented with using my black powder flask and measure with smokeless (very carefully I'll add, don't try this at home unless you are absolute confident in your ability to accurately measure the charges) by weighing the intended charge on my scale (44.0gr), then pouring it into my powder measure and slowly and carefully raising the piston until the powder charge was flush with the top of the measure. I found that this method provided +/- .02gr accuracy when the thrown charges were weighed. To ensure that there was no doubt that the piston hadn't moved I then heavily scored the sliding scale of the measure with a utility knife as a point of reference.

To sum up, measure the charge with your BP measure first for you intended BP equivalent amount of powder, then weigh that charge, note the actual weight and use that to weigh subsequent charges.

Mike

Paul L Mohr

I was told that you measure black powder and substitutes by volume instead of weight because it is moisture sensitive. The humidity and temprature will effect the weight of the powder. So if this was the case you would have to calibrate everytime you did it, not just once since the ambient conditions would be different. And the longer the can was open it would change as well I would think.

If you did your intitial test on a cool dry day the weight would not be the same as it would be another day that was maybe warm and muggy, or vice versa. I have never actually tried it to be honest. I should since I have a grain scale that I use to weigh my arrows.

Is this true or was someone feeding me a line of crap? They seemed like they really knew what they were talking about at the time. I can't for the life of me remember who told me this though.

Paul