What factors for Accuracy?
07-11-2005, 08:49 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
What factors for Accuracy?
Was thinking a little about accuracy of slug guns and ML. They are simple contraptions. You don't have to worry about headspace, and even throat length (maybe with sluggun). But anyway, what factors do you think contributes the most to accuracy of ML. Especially since ML seem to have a mind of thier own. I know mine do and I have had a bunch. They all seem to have thier own ticks.
This post is just to spark some discussion in the slow time.
I think the main factors are this in this order. this assumes consistent shot to shot loading/swabbing techniques.
1. Barrel inside dimentions from lands to grooves and overall consistency thru the length of the barrel contributes the most to consistent shot to shot grouping. I also believe this contributes to how often to swab.
2. Nipple/breech plug. I bet this contributes the most to the crud ring and consistent shot after shot ignition. I bet this one part plays one of the most important pieces in why one ML likes this load or this 209 primer over another.
3. Bedding of the barrel of inline to the stock. Same asa Centerfire, I have seen a good bedding job make the world of difference.
4. Powder/primer lot to lot consistency. I bet most on here if you have been shooting long enough to go thru several if not dozens and dozens of cans of powder have found a patch that just didn't shoot or maybe smelled bad, or maybe just the wrong powder. I have seenmy neighbor claim a strong sulfur smell in his 777 for instance.
5. Barrel whip. Its fairly well known to the centerfire world that the secondary pressure spike at the end of the barrel has a major effect on accuracy. The faster the powder or lower loadit tends to not be as severe. I am not sure about this one. Very possible since under pressure, various powders may cause different pressure spikes.
I imagine pressure is what keeps manufactures up all night. Its just so hard and difficult with ML to figure pressure. The piezo techniques can be clucky and just downright wrong and inconsistent unless you have a sure grasp on materials and hardening technique of the metal of the barrel and really trusted modeling techniques to get your baseline pressure.
Just food for thought for the day.
This post is just to spark some discussion in the slow time.
I think the main factors are this in this order. this assumes consistent shot to shot loading/swabbing techniques.
1. Barrel inside dimentions from lands to grooves and overall consistency thru the length of the barrel contributes the most to consistent shot to shot grouping. I also believe this contributes to how often to swab.
2. Nipple/breech plug. I bet this contributes the most to the crud ring and consistent shot after shot ignition. I bet this one part plays one of the most important pieces in why one ML likes this load or this 209 primer over another.
3. Bedding of the barrel of inline to the stock. Same asa Centerfire, I have seen a good bedding job make the world of difference.
4. Powder/primer lot to lot consistency. I bet most on here if you have been shooting long enough to go thru several if not dozens and dozens of cans of powder have found a patch that just didn't shoot or maybe smelled bad, or maybe just the wrong powder. I have seenmy neighbor claim a strong sulfur smell in his 777 for instance.
5. Barrel whip. Its fairly well known to the centerfire world that the secondary pressure spike at the end of the barrel has a major effect on accuracy. The faster the powder or lower loadit tends to not be as severe. I am not sure about this one. Very possible since under pressure, various powders may cause different pressure spikes.
I imagine pressure is what keeps manufactures up all night. Its just so hard and difficult with ML to figure pressure. The piezo techniques can be clucky and just downright wrong and inconsistent unless you have a sure grasp on materials and hardening technique of the metal of the barrel and really trusted modeling techniques to get your baseline pressure.
Just food for thought for the day.
07-11-2005, 11:33 AM
#2
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: What factors for Accuracy?
For me .... accuracy = consistency
The one way I found to get my rifles as accurate as possible is to be consistent in every step of the process. I try different projectiles and powders in all kinds of combinations until I get the tightest possible groups under the desired conditions. After that I stress myselfto do everything the same when shooting. I prepare the barrel the same with alcohol swabs. I clear the nipple or breech plug with caps or primers. I measure the powder charge as close to the last one as humanly possible using the measure. I even position the sabot so a break in the petals of the sabot line up with the front sight of the rifle. I wet the sabot the same with spit from my mouth. The same holds true for conicals.I then short start and finally try and seat the sabot or conicalwith the same pressure each and every shot. I swab between shots the same. I stay consistent.
I am then also very careful about how I address the rifle in relation to hold, breath, trigger squeeze, rest position, and follow through after the shot. Every thing I do I try to be as consistent as I was with each and every shot before and following. This is how I have always been taught to shoot accurate.
Something I do which others might also, but I keep a detailed journal of each rifle, each load it shoots well, the weather conditions, time of day and date. When I get a flyer I also note what happened or what I felt might have caused that..
Consistency is the key for me...
good question bigcountry!
The one way I found to get my rifles as accurate as possible is to be consistent in every step of the process. I try different projectiles and powders in all kinds of combinations until I get the tightest possible groups under the desired conditions. After that I stress myselfto do everything the same when shooting. I prepare the barrel the same with alcohol swabs. I clear the nipple or breech plug with caps or primers. I measure the powder charge as close to the last one as humanly possible using the measure. I even position the sabot so a break in the petals of the sabot line up with the front sight of the rifle. I wet the sabot the same with spit from my mouth. The same holds true for conicals.I then short start and finally try and seat the sabot or conicalwith the same pressure each and every shot. I swab between shots the same. I stay consistent.
I am then also very careful about how I address the rifle in relation to hold, breath, trigger squeeze, rest position, and follow through after the shot. Every thing I do I try to be as consistent as I was with each and every shot before and following. This is how I have always been taught to shoot accurate.
Something I do which others might also, but I keep a detailed journal of each rifle, each load it shoots well, the weather conditions, time of day and date. When I get a flyer I also note what happened or what I felt might have caused that..
Consistency is the key for me...
good question bigcountry!
07-11-2005, 02:12 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: What factors for Accuracy?
I agree, when I first started ML's, a seasoned veteran explained that consistency is what matters with ML.
But have you noticed that even with consistency, optimal results vary greatly between gun to gun, even the same gun by the same manufacturer. There can't be that much voodoo magic behind it.
I know all my buddies on the Rifle section like to think there is a magic behind why every gun is an individual, but I have seen custom builders that beg to differ showing if they make the throat the same every time and take care doing it, and carfully build to the correct close tolerances, that it takes out the individualism of a gun.
But have you noticed that even with consistency, optimal results vary greatly between gun to gun, even the same gun by the same manufacturer. There can't be that much voodoo magic behind it.
I know all my buddies on the Rifle section like to think there is a magic behind why every gun is an individual, but I have seen custom builders that beg to differ showing if they make the throat the same every time and take care doing it, and carfully build to the correct close tolerances, that it takes out the individualism of a gun.
07-11-2005, 02:40 PM
#4
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2
RE: What factors for Accuracy?
Lots of things. I've noted that some of my muzzleloaders shoot patched balls pretty well. Investarms made chromed barrels for Sile until Sile backed out of the import business. Investarms also makes the economy Hawkens for Cabelas. These have a bore that shows a little variation, getting a little tighter as you go towards the muzzle -- which has been used by other manufacturers in the past.
I have an older T/C hawken that shoots patched balls very very badly. However, it seems to shoot sabotted conicals very accurately. That was a real eye-opener and a pleasure. A good chunk of that has to do with the spin in the barrel -- faster spin stabilizes longer projectiles better; balls like slower spin.
Consistency is very important (how you seat your load, how much powder, etc), how you manage your fouling between shots, etc).
Dan
I have an older T/C hawken that shoots patched balls very very badly. However, it seems to shoot sabotted conicals very accurately. That was a real eye-opener and a pleasure. A good chunk of that has to do with the spin in the barrel -- faster spin stabilizes longer projectiles better; balls like slower spin.
Consistency is very important (how you seat your load, how much powder, etc), how you manage your fouling between shots, etc).
Dan
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