Burning efficiency?
 

Ok, I have a question for you all concerning how much powder you are actually burning.

My gun is a CVA Bobcat. I went out the other day, and did some testing. I can put all of my shots into the vitals of an elk up to 75 yds in field position with 90 grs Goex 2f and a 350 Maxi-Hunter. I am getting 1290 FPS, 80 grs will give me 1250 FPS.

A while back, I did a test with the 245 gr Buffalo Ball et's. I started at 80 grns, all the way to 100 grs, though this was with Pyrodex RS. The range... 5 feet. I shot at a plain piece of paper. With 80 grs, there was very little, if any powder residue on the paper. With 90, there was a small amount. At 100 grs, there was a LOT!! Clearly when I was getting up to 90 grs powder, I was not burning all of my powder. At 100, I was just wasting too much. So I know I will not go over 90 in that gun, at least with the 245's. I have yet to test this with any other bullet, powder combo. I will try it with the Goex here soon and the 245's, as well as round balls. I do not have any more maxi hunters left, so that will have to wait until I get a chance to buy some more to test that way also.

Either way, I will stick with that 90 grs with that Maxi Hunter for the elk. I could use every fps I can get.

Has anyone else done a test like this with there ML? I would be interested to know how those tests have turned out.

Thanks.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

Interesting idea...one thought about the amount of material coming out...you didn't mention if the bore was 100% cleaned between shots for the test...if not, wonder if cleaning the bore between each and every shot would have an effect on this as you were increasing the powder charges...ie: as fouling builds up inside the bore, is it possible that more and more fouling would then get expelled because it has no where else to go, etc

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

As long as I got good accuracy with the load I am sure the load you mentioned will be more then enough once the projectile is put in the right place. According to the manual 100 grains is the max charge anyway.

In my Mountain Stalker I have the best accuracy with 80 grains of Triple Se7en a wonder wad and a patched roundball. I tried some conicals out of mine but was not impressed with the groups after 50 yards with them. Are you using a wonderwad?

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

Charlie,

Thanks for this post - gives me another thing to look for. I confess, I would have never thought to look for powder on the target.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

Nope, I never have used a wonder wad for my round ball loads. I know that I can still get an honest 1.75" center to center at 50 yds with 80 grs RS and the round ball. The others, the best I can do so far is 3" or so. I have some of those round ball targets still. I figured there was not need to have a wonder wad if I can get less than 2" at 50!!

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

I could not agree with you more charlie brown. The reason I shoot a wonder wad is using the Triple Se7en powder I discovered I was smoking the patches. And I do mean smoking, like still smoldering in the grass after shooting. I added the wonderwad and that all stopped and the accuracy is exceptional. With the kind of groups your shooting I would not change a thing...

In fact I ordered the rifle in September I believe it was and started working up a load for it. It tuned in so fast that I used it that November for deer hunting and it was more then able to handle the job.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

Just to make sure, I dug out some targets. Looks like I had one shot at 42 paces that was actually 1.9" and one at 50 that was 2.0."

I thought they were a little smaller than that. Oh well, I was close anyway, lol.

Edit - and I honestly don't recall what my cleaning was while doing those tests. I will have to do another one to find out.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

Looks like your sheet of paper said the same thing as my shoulder, ain't no point in shootin' more'n 80 grains in a Bobcat. :D

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

charlie brown, I was sighting in my new peep sights today and clocked some of my loads. I am using a 50cal witha 27" barrel. Shooting Hornady Great Plans 410 HBSP, with MMP sub-bases under them. Goex powder. Two shot groups.

80gr FFF 1270 3" and low
90gr FFF 1350 1 1/2"
100gr FFF 1410 1 3/4"
100gr FF 1310 2 1/8"


At 50 yards the 90 and 100 grain loads all group together, 2 and 3F.

Waiting to move out to 100 yards and see what happens with the groups.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

BS.. I've sure been reading a lot about these sub bases. There must be something to all this because a lot of people are claiming better accuracy using them. Your results will be most interesting when you get back to 100 yards..

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

I shot some powder today at 100, using the 410s and sub bases.

3 shot groups

90 FFF 2 9/16"
100FF 7" horizontal string?

Only thing different that I did with the FF was wipe the barrel with lube after loading and reseat the bullet.

I clean the barrel with windex, then two dry patches, then a lubed patch of Bore Butter, fire a cap and load.

I am going to reshoot the FF with no lube afterwards, and some dry ones.

I did find some power belts 295s, 348s and some 405s that I will have to try.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

That's some very respectable shooting .... sounds like the sub bases do make a difference. I think I will order some of them.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

I also have some sabots that I am going to cut the pedals off and try them under some flat base bullets, might even punch out some heavy 1/2" dia. cardboard and try that under a few.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

I'm also going to try some of the MMP sub bases with conical and sabot's.

Always looking for something else to tinker with.

Like I have enough time to fool with everything I have thus far!
:D

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

You might try some Winchester AA (pink) 28 guage shotgun wads - with the petals cut off - for this application. I understand Toby Bridges used these with some success in conjunction with flat base bullets. May have been the idea for the MMP sub-base, if I recall correctly.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

Sub bases will help some by forming a better gas seal, but traditional blackpowder is extremely inefficient. The reason you get more unburned powder with the higher loads is because the powder takes up more of the bore volumetrically, thus some of the charge is farther away from the ignition source and doesn't get burned. Its really nothing to worry about, just realize that the more BP the more inefficient it becomes. The guys shooting 150gr of BP really crack me up :D since only about 2/3 of that load is getting burned, the rest is contributed to the ejecta and only causes the gun to recoil harder with very little increase in velocity vs the 90-100 gr load.

BTW, If your using sabots instead of powerbelts, I highly recommend MMP sabots. Just throw away whatever plastic crap comes with the bullets and use theres. They are by far the strongest on the market and at 80-100 gr. BP you shouldn't need a subbase

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

Roskoe, my brother just had a case of 28 ga. wads given to him. so I will give some a try in my 54. They do fit nicely!

zac76156 the sub bases are not used for there gas seal, but to keep preasure from blowing away the base of the bullet.

>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>

Here is a test that I did with my GM 27" 54cal. back in 1988.

All shot with Goex FFF and .535RB

90. 1594
100 1642
110 1740
120 1808
130 1867
140 1916

Also:

I was looking for a load to shoot saboted Hornady 44x 265grain in my 50 Kodiak. 28" bbl.
Goex powder.

160 FF 1820
170 FF 1890
180 FF 1890

150 FFF 1900

I wish I would have clocked the lighter loads, but you can see were the FF quits gaining.

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

BS - there are several varieties of 28 guage wads, as I found out the hard way. The stiff red AA wads are fatter than the flimsy pink ones - and the pink ones are about the right size for a .50 caliber. I don't own a .54, but maybe the red ones will work in that caliber. You couldn't get them down a .50 barrel with a mallet! Roskoe

RE: Burning efficiency?
 

Mine are white Remington, and they just fit a 54 nicely. But I do have a mallet, Thanks Roskoe!