Africa Hunting
03-04-2005, 05:59 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Carletonville South Africa
Posts: 23
RE: Africa Hunting
I agree. Difficult to say who determines it! Luckily we do not have these laws in South Africa and even in the rest of Africa, that I know of. Nothing gets wasted, everything is utelised. In a natural environment in Africa, there is more than enough for scavengers to eat and predators get their share as well.
03-04-2005, 08:39 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,485
RE: Africa Hunting
Thanks a lot Victor for your willingness to share your knowledge of a place, I'm sure, most of us would like to experience.
Two questions if you don't mind
you said the animals in South Africa are privately owned--Is that by individual ranchers? if so, are those ranches self contained or are the animals free to roam wherever? how big are these areas? (if they are independant of each other) Is there a standard price on a particular species or does it also depend on the area?
would you catagorize the overall hunting in Africa---better, worse, or the same over the last many years?
Are there any marked increases or decreases in any particularly notable species. It seems like I see more elepaht hunts in recent years on those safari tv programs, but perhaps not. I know when I was a pup, I subscribed to magazines about safari hunting and the elephants in those pictures (as I remember) seemd to have much bigger tusks that the ones I see today---maybe that's cause I'm bigger
Sorry that was more than two questions
thanks again
hb
Two questions if you don't mind
you said the animals in South Africa are privately owned--Is that by individual ranchers? if so, are those ranches self contained or are the animals free to roam wherever? how big are these areas? (if they are independant of each other) Is there a standard price on a particular species or does it also depend on the area?
would you catagorize the overall hunting in Africa---better, worse, or the same over the last many years?
Are there any marked increases or decreases in any particularly notable species. It seems like I see more elepaht hunts in recent years on those safari tv programs, but perhaps not. I know when I was a pup, I subscribed to magazines about safari hunting and the elephants in those pictures (as I remember) seemd to have much bigger tusks that the ones I see today---maybe that's cause I'm bigger
Sorry that was more than two questions
thanks again
hb
03-04-2005, 10:19 PM
#24
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MN USA
Posts: 245
RE: Africa Hunting
MBRF- Just for the record I would like to say that I didn't call you uneducated, I said your opinion was uneducated, and it was. You openly addmitted that you didn't know much about African hunting. Maybe you should have asked how the system works before looking down your nose at those who take part in it. It is obvious that at least a good portion of the meat from the animals shot over there is utilized, that is a good thing. I, like you, do not take any great pleasure in shooting game that I don't intend to eat, but that doesn't mean that legaly shooting game solely for sport is wrong. Thousands of hunters here in the US plink at prairie dogs and chase coyotes, but you would be hard pressed to find a good recipe for either critter. Just because you don't think it's right to hunt animals you don't intend to eat doesn't mean it's not ok to do so, as long as it's legal. Personally I could never go on a bear hunt with dogs. To me it just doesn't seem fair, but for some it's perfectly exceptable. I don't think these hunters are unethical, I just think they're different than me, and that's fine. As hunters, there are so many people and groups who are against us, the last thing we need is to have fighting among each other. Remember, you and I are on the same team!
03-05-2005, 10:39 AM
#25
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Carletonville South Africa
Posts: 23
RE: Africa Hunting
Hi there hb,
Thank you for the kind words.
Yes, we do not have government concession areas in South Africa, even though Nature Conservation now hands out tenders for very controlled hunting in some game parks. This is very strictly controlled and a very limited amount of species are awarded. The farms are self contained, meaning that it is quite big areas where the game are free to roam. It is however fenced with high game fences and the ecology needs to be well managed so that you do not get to many of one species or to many animals for the stretch of land that you own. The size of these farms differ. Some are as small as 400 hectares but can go up to 5000 hectares or even bigger. I prefer to hunt on not less than 1500 hectares. On the smaller farms, you obviously would not find a huge variety of species and much less game.
There is no standard price, although there seem to be a norm where game farmers would compare their prices with the other farmers in the area. The prices of species also differ from area to area. Where a certain species occur naturally, you would obviously find the best trophies as well as a cheaper price e.g. in the Northern Cape, Springbok would be less costly than in the Northern Freestate OR Nyala, less costly in Northern Kwa Zulu Natal than in the Limpopo Province. Game auction prices also affects the market somewhat. On a well managed gamefarm, the owner would take off his trophy animals, which is in most cases the males and bring in "new blood", bought at game auctions. The prices of species increases every year. It is not measure by this but do affect the general game prices. Since you put in "new blood" it will take about 3 to 5 years before you will get good trophies again, from your initial stock. So,yes, prices do differ according to area.
I would say that trophy quality has decreased a bit, but hunting in general has increased. There are more and more livestock farmers converting to game farming in South Africa. One of the reasons are that they get a bigger income from this, even though hunting as an income is mostly seasonal. They do not have the cover cost as with livestock, like dipping and innoculation etc. Game tend to be more drought resistant than livestock and less prone to disease. Regarding general hunting in Africa; I would say the same but since there are mostly concession areas, the picture changes a bit. Due to civil war and turmoil in a lot of African countries, the hunting in those countries has suffered a bit. War and economic strugle in the rest of the world also affects the hunting bussines and tourism as a whole.
I would say that in South Africa, certain species are more on the increase due to conservation and game farming. Not all game farms in South Africa go for hunting, some only go for eco tourism and due to this, a lot of species are introduced to areas where they have been wiped out. In Africa, in general, I can not say what process they use to determane the species count. They do however have some form of control on species; just a certain quota on certain species are awarded for hunting per year. If my memory serves me correctly, I think that Lion hunting is closed in Botswana at the moment. This shows that there is some form of determaning game numbers. They have made mistakes in the past though, one African countrey stopped Elephant hunting for a number of years and only realised their mistake when the damage has been done. The Elephant population has increased so much that they devestated some of the forested parts of the countrey.
Yes, as I said, it would be very unlikely to take a trophy that would reach the number 1 or 2 Rowland Ward record. This is not impossible though. The hunting areas in Africa are huge and, with a lot of luck, you might still find that exceptional trophy. I would say that the decrease in trophy size is also due to hunting and poaching. There were so many hunter that passed through Africa through the years that the game do not reach their ripe old age before they are hunted and therefore the trophy size decreases. This is just my opinion and should not be taken as a rule of thumb. These are things that I have experienced and seen with all my travellings through Southern Africa.
I would conclude in saying that hunting is alive and well in Africa and that there is still a very good future for hunting and conservation on our continent.
Thank you for the kind words.
Yes, we do not have government concession areas in South Africa, even though Nature Conservation now hands out tenders for very controlled hunting in some game parks. This is very strictly controlled and a very limited amount of species are awarded. The farms are self contained, meaning that it is quite big areas where the game are free to roam. It is however fenced with high game fences and the ecology needs to be well managed so that you do not get to many of one species or to many animals for the stretch of land that you own. The size of these farms differ. Some are as small as 400 hectares but can go up to 5000 hectares or even bigger. I prefer to hunt on not less than 1500 hectares. On the smaller farms, you obviously would not find a huge variety of species and much less game.
There is no standard price, although there seem to be a norm where game farmers would compare their prices with the other farmers in the area. The prices of species also differ from area to area. Where a certain species occur naturally, you would obviously find the best trophies as well as a cheaper price e.g. in the Northern Cape, Springbok would be less costly than in the Northern Freestate OR Nyala, less costly in Northern Kwa Zulu Natal than in the Limpopo Province. Game auction prices also affects the market somewhat. On a well managed gamefarm, the owner would take off his trophy animals, which is in most cases the males and bring in "new blood", bought at game auctions. The prices of species increases every year. It is not measure by this but do affect the general game prices. Since you put in "new blood" it will take about 3 to 5 years before you will get good trophies again, from your initial stock. So,yes, prices do differ according to area.
I would say that trophy quality has decreased a bit, but hunting in general has increased. There are more and more livestock farmers converting to game farming in South Africa. One of the reasons are that they get a bigger income from this, even though hunting as an income is mostly seasonal. They do not have the cover cost as with livestock, like dipping and innoculation etc. Game tend to be more drought resistant than livestock and less prone to disease. Regarding general hunting in Africa; I would say the same but since there are mostly concession areas, the picture changes a bit. Due to civil war and turmoil in a lot of African countries, the hunting in those countries has suffered a bit. War and economic strugle in the rest of the world also affects the hunting bussines and tourism as a whole.
I would say that in South Africa, certain species are more on the increase due to conservation and game farming. Not all game farms in South Africa go for hunting, some only go for eco tourism and due to this, a lot of species are introduced to areas where they have been wiped out. In Africa, in general, I can not say what process they use to determane the species count. They do however have some form of control on species; just a certain quota on certain species are awarded for hunting per year. If my memory serves me correctly, I think that Lion hunting is closed in Botswana at the moment. This shows that there is some form of determaning game numbers. They have made mistakes in the past though, one African countrey stopped Elephant hunting for a number of years and only realised their mistake when the damage has been done. The Elephant population has increased so much that they devestated some of the forested parts of the countrey.
Yes, as I said, it would be very unlikely to take a trophy that would reach the number 1 or 2 Rowland Ward record. This is not impossible though. The hunting areas in Africa are huge and, with a lot of luck, you might still find that exceptional trophy. I would say that the decrease in trophy size is also due to hunting and poaching. There were so many hunter that passed through Africa through the years that the game do not reach their ripe old age before they are hunted and therefore the trophy size decreases. This is just my opinion and should not be taken as a rule of thumb. These are things that I have experienced and seen with all my travellings through Southern Africa.
I would conclude in saying that hunting is alive and well in Africa and that there is still a very good future for hunting and conservation on our continent.
