.243 Win perfect for elk
06-19-2014, 05:59 AM
#72
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Elk deserve more than a poor choice.
06-19-2014, 06:25 AM
#74
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
For the record. I used a 30-30 for 50 years on elk. All shots were under 100yds. Most were shot at bow range. I used the 170gr Partition bullet.
I feel this was very safe, and never lost an elk.
Now lets talk about the ranges the .243 will be, or has been shot at?
GM...Pretty weak, but it seems to be your pattern lately. Don't even try to claim your post wasn't aimed at me.
I feel this was very safe, and never lost an elk.
Now lets talk about the ranges the .243 will be, or has been shot at?
GM...Pretty weak, but it seems to be your pattern lately. Don't even try to claim your post wasn't aimed at me.
06-19-2014, 07:35 AM
#75
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
For the record. I used a 30-30 for 50 years on elk. All shots were under 100yds. Most were shot at bow range. I used the 170gr Partition bullet.
I feel this was very safe, and never lost an elk.
Now lets talk about the ranges the .243 will be, or has been shot at?
GM...Pretty weak, but it seems to be your pattern lately. Don't even try to claim your post wasn't aimed at me.
I feel this was very safe, and never lost an elk.
Now lets talk about the ranges the .243 will be, or has been shot at?
GM...Pretty weak, but it seems to be your pattern lately. Don't even try to claim your post wasn't aimed at me.
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 06-19-2014 at 07:38 AM.
06-19-2014, 07:47 AM
#76
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Muley,
Contrary to what you may believe, its not always about you and if you want to resort to insults we can take this up another way.
The 243 and 30-30 have more in common than you may think. Both Nosler Partitions (100gr vs 170gr) have a not too different sectional density. 240ish (243) vs 250ish (30-30).....im assuming you understand why a high SD is beneficial for penetration.
Muzzle energy is not dramatically different. At least its not like comparing them to a magnum class chambering. 243 100gr...roughly 2000fpe+...30-30 170gr almost 1900fpe.
Light recoil for those sensitive to recoil. Quite often this is an advantage for some hunters vs using a magnum or even a good old 45/70.
At 100 yards though thing start to change quite a bit. The higher BC of the 243 100gr Partition starts to show some value in retained energy/velocity and by 200 yards the 243 still has about the same energy as a 30-30 has retained at 100 yards...roughly 1300+fpe.
Neither one is very impressive in TKO factor but i would give the edge to the 170gr Partitions. The velocity edge certainly goes to the 243 and arguably the more abundant/accurate platforms...a bolt action. Your average 30-30 lever gun is not likely to win that accuracy contest too often and bolt action 30-30s are not exactly common by comparison.
Most people know speed kills very well and shot placement is king. The Euro block has been using the 6.5x55 Swede for many years on game quite a bit larger than our deer including moose. Those long 139-140gr 6.5 bullets have done quite well when the bullet hits its mark. Yet the muzzle energy is not dramatically better than a 100gr 243.
Did you have any facts to add or just an opinion on why a 30-30 is ok but a 243 is not? As i said, i would not recommend either but its certainly possible.
Contrary to what you may believe, its not always about you and if you want to resort to insults we can take this up another way.
The 243 and 30-30 have more in common than you may think. Both Nosler Partitions (100gr vs 170gr) have a not too different sectional density. 240ish (243) vs 250ish (30-30).....im assuming you understand why a high SD is beneficial for penetration.
Muzzle energy is not dramatically different. At least its not like comparing them to a magnum class chambering. 243 100gr...roughly 2000fpe+...30-30 170gr almost 1900fpe.
Light recoil for those sensitive to recoil. Quite often this is an advantage for some hunters vs using a magnum or even a good old 45/70.
At 100 yards though thing start to change quite a bit. The higher BC of the 243 100gr Partition starts to show some value in retained energy/velocity and by 200 yards the 243 still has about the same energy as a 30-30 has retained at 100 yards...roughly 1300+fpe.
Neither one is very impressive in TKO factor but i would give the edge to the 170gr Partitions. The velocity edge certainly goes to the 243 and arguably the more abundant/accurate platforms...a bolt action. Your average 30-30 lever gun is not likely to win that accuracy contest too often and bolt action 30-30s are not exactly common by comparison.
Most people know speed kills very well and shot placement is king. The Euro block has been using the 6.5x55 Swede for many years on game quite a bit larger than our deer including moose. Those long 139-140gr 6.5 bullets have done quite well when the bullet hits its mark. Yet the muzzle energy is not dramatically better than a 100gr 243.
Did you have any facts to add or just an opinion on why a 30-30 is ok but a 243 is not? As i said, i would not recommend either but its certainly possible.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 06-19-2014 at 08:08 AM.
06-19-2014, 08:03 AM
#77
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Muley,
Contrary to what you may believe, its not always about you and if you want to resort to insults we can take this up another way.
The 243 and 30-30 have more in common than you may think. Both Nosler Partitions (100gr vs 170gr) have a not too different sectional density. 240ish (243) vs 250ish (30-30).....im assuming you understand why a high SD is beneficial for penetration.
Muzzle energy is not dramatically different. At least its not like comparing them to a magnum class chambering. 243 100gr...roughly 2000fpe...30-30 170gr almost 1900fpe.
Light recoil for those sensitive to recoil. Quite often this is an advantage for some hunters vs using a magnum or even a good old 45/70.
At 100 yards though thing start to change quite a bit. The higher BC of the 243 100gr Partition starts to show some value in retained energy/velocity and by 200 yards the 243 still has about the same energy as a 30-30 has retained at 100 yards...roughly 1300+fpe.
Neither one is very impressive in TKO factor but i would give the edge to the 170gr Partitions. The velocity edge certainly goes to the 243 and arguably the more abundant/accurate platforms...a bolt action. Your average 30-30 lever gun is not likely to win that accuracy contest too often and bolt action 30-30s are not exactly common by comparison.
Most people know speed kills very well and shot placement is king. The Euro block has been using the 6.5x55 Swede for many years on game quite a bit larger than deer. Those long 139-140gr 6.5 bullets have done quite well when the bullet hits its mark. Yet the muzzle energy is not too much better than a 100gr 243.
Did you have any facts to add or just an opinion on why a 30-30 is ok but a 243 is not? As i said, i would not recommend either but its certainly possible.
Contrary to what you may believe, its not always about you and if you want to resort to insults we can take this up another way.
The 243 and 30-30 have more in common than you may think. Both Nosler Partitions (100gr vs 170gr) have a not too different sectional density. 240ish (243) vs 250ish (30-30).....im assuming you understand why a high SD is beneficial for penetration.
Muzzle energy is not dramatically different. At least its not like comparing them to a magnum class chambering. 243 100gr...roughly 2000fpe...30-30 170gr almost 1900fpe.
Light recoil for those sensitive to recoil. Quite often this is an advantage for some hunters vs using a magnum or even a good old 45/70.
At 100 yards though thing start to change quite a bit. The higher BC of the 243 100gr Partition starts to show some value in retained energy/velocity and by 200 yards the 243 still has about the same energy as a 30-30 has retained at 100 yards...roughly 1300+fpe.
Neither one is very impressive in TKO factor but i would give the edge to the 170gr Partitions. The velocity edge certainly goes to the 243 and arguably the more abundant/accurate platforms...a bolt action. Your average 30-30 lever gun is not likely to win that accuracy contest too often and bolt action 30-30s are not exactly common by comparison.
Most people know speed kills very well and shot placement is king. The Euro block has been using the 6.5x55 Swede for many years on game quite a bit larger than deer. Those long 139-140gr 6.5 bullets have done quite well when the bullet hits its mark. Yet the muzzle energy is not too much better than a 100gr 243.
Did you have any facts to add or just an opinion on why a 30-30 is ok but a 243 is not? As i said, i would not recommend either but its certainly possible.
06-19-2014, 08:22 AM
#78
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Leave what alone?
I only want to see some facts, not opinions. I gave quite a few facts and without speed, that bullet is useless. It has no retained energy, it has no expansion, it has no tissue displacement or shock value. Both calibers appear to be very marginal for elk and there are certainly far better choices available.
I only want to see some facts, not opinions. I gave quite a few facts and without speed, that bullet is useless. It has no retained energy, it has no expansion, it has no tissue displacement or shock value. Both calibers appear to be very marginal for elk and there are certainly far better choices available.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 06-19-2014 at 08:29 AM.
06-19-2014, 09:06 AM
#79
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Of course it's not about me. Except when you post lately GM.
Who else were you thinking of that used a 30-30 all their life on elk, and made a post saying a .243 is a poor choice? Which it is.
All you read about a .243 is the success it had. How many elk were wounded, and lost to a .243? If everybody kept the shots to 200yds with a .243 it wouldn't be bad. That's not the case though. Too many think it's a 400yd caliber. It is........for deer.
btw..I never recommend a 30-30 for elk unless they take close shots. Kind of like a PRB.
Who else were you thinking of that used a 30-30 all their life on elk, and made a post saying a .243 is a poor choice? Which it is.
All you read about a .243 is the success it had. How many elk were wounded, and lost to a .243? If everybody kept the shots to 200yds with a .243 it wouldn't be bad. That's not the case though. Too many think it's a 400yd caliber. It is........for deer.
btw..I never recommend a 30-30 for elk unless they take close shots. Kind of like a PRB.
Last edited by Muley Hunter; 06-19-2014 at 09:09 AM.
06-19-2014, 09:23 AM
#80
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Leave what alone?I only want to see some facts, not opinions. I gave quite a few facts and without speed, that bullet is useless. It has no retained energy, it has no expansion, it has no tissue displacement or shock value. Both calibers appear to be very marginal for elk and there are certainly far better choices available.
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 06-19-2014 at 09:25 AM.
