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More "wolf" news!

Old 12-19-2004, 12:25 AM
  #11  
 
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Default RE: More "wolf" news!

That is funny idahoelkinstructor, i also have the "shoot an wolf, save 100 elk" sticker. So if you ever see a blazer with that red sticker on the back, it's me!
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Old 12-19-2004, 01:21 AM
  #12  
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ElkampMaster I am afraid you are all too correct! People just wait until your favorite area is overrun with wolves and the elk seem to just dissapear for no other reason. I can say I truly hate them and I worry about not being able to hunt elk in the furture because of this stupid dog! I know I will be looking for new area's to hunt this next year because the wolves have runnied my huntin grounds. I have been told that if the wolves are just passing through the elk will come back into the area. But we have seen and heard wolves for the last four years in our area. This last year we saw a lot of wolves and very few elk. [:@] I know some of you just think I am blowing smoke, but like I said wait till it happens to your AREA, and you can't elk hunt anymore! Then will see who's crying wolf!
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Old 12-19-2004, 08:52 PM
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Elkinstructor, have you gone to any of the meetings? I went to one down in lewiston, and a family friend held one up in N. Idaho, but i was sick. It sounds like we are taking legal action, but i don't know what is currently happening.
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Old 12-19-2004, 10:32 PM
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EKM, with the recent USO court ruling we may all find that the non-residents have as many tags as the resident hunters, which will all be scarce if this wolf issue grows, and it will. Consider too, that the west has the extremly liberal 9th circuit to deal with in San Fransisco. In 10-20 years elk tags may be by draw only, and you very well may see a 50/50 draw res/nonres allotment. What needs to be established is that it is ok to whack a wolf, illegal or not. Screw the USFS, this is their baby. Keep in mind also that population control is the heart of hunting. If the wolves can do an adequate job of controling the elk population, why even have hunters? This wolf situation is a win-win for animal rights nuts and environmental whacko's. If nothing else SSS population control measure's cannot possible help the wolf population, so I say losse the lead and do what you can.
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Old 12-21-2004, 11:29 AM
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Default RE: More "wolf" news!

Its not just elk either, I took the family through my old stomping grounds in the beartooths this summer because it was a "gauranteed" chance to see plenty of moose. We used to see 6+ moose EVERY time we went through there (Dead Indian Pass or Beartooth Pass to Cooke City, Mont). Evry cow had at least one calf. This summer we saw ONE moose and made 4 trips just to see her, and guess what, NO CALF. That was the first calfless cow moose I have ever seen in the area.
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Old 12-21-2004, 11:39 AM
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muley69- Dont bet that the ruling of the 9th will stand for long, it is the core of our legal systems rot and decay. it has more judgements overturned by the supreme court than the rest of the disricts combined. We just have to force the issue to the supreme court to get it overturned and put control back into the state game and fish deptments hands. Arizona was THE MOST non-resident friendly dept I've ever delt w/, they were great to deal w/ and had the best quality game also, so I just dont see why anyone (other than USO who will get rich) would supporting that litigation.
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:26 PM
  #17  
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Default RE: More "wolf" news!

IF they control these wolves properly and allow hunters to shoot them like they do in BC and other parts of Canada the Elk will come back and probably be stronger as a result. No one can doubt the healthy Elk herd in the Canadian provinces. If they don't allow us to shoot them as a game species the only place you'll find Elk will be Kentucky and North Carolina and Pennsylvania.
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Old 12-21-2004, 05:17 PM
  #18  
 
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Default RE: More "wolf" news!

Muley69 makes an interesting point: "Keep in mind also that population control is the heart of hunting. If the wolves can do an adequate job of controling the elk population, why even have hunters? "

Reading this and the posts with the comment "Kill a wolf and save 100 elk" got me to thinking. Assume for a moment that the wolves are established in an area (through re-introduction or natural causes) and that they reduce the elk herd to such a point that there is no "surplus" available for hunters. I suspect that there are very few subsistence hunters out there these days. Would you feel justified in eliminating the wolves for eating the elk that they need so that we can hunt elk? If nature has balanced the equation on its own, what's our moral arguement for knocking out a species just so we can have access to it? If its OK to introduce elk in Kentucky, why not wolves in Colorado?

I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on that.

My opinion is that its not quite that simple, even if you shot every wolf that left Yellowstone and kept them bottled up inside. I think its more complex than that because it almost assumes that man is not part of nature. The wolf kills coyotes that compete for its food and territory that's OK, but if man kills wolves that compete for its food and territory, that's not OK? Given an abundance of prey, predators will explode until the numbers are brought down, then starve (or spread out, which isn't really that possible in this case).

Man is usually more sensible in his approach, promoting a sensible, sustainable harvest. If they want to control elk populations in Yellowstone, let hunters in (crazy talk, I know). True, we don't always agree on how, and state DNR's have a crazy balancing act But I suspect we'd all like the opportunity to try.
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Old 12-21-2004, 05:54 PM
  #19  
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Default RE: More "wolf" news!

I have not hunted very much in areas where wolves have cut into the elk population but I have done a lot of moose hunting and have seen what wolves do to the population of Moose calves. If we as hunters are going to share game with the wolf then as someone else said here, we need to hunt the wolves as well. It is probably true that if the wolf can manage the elk population without help from hunters then it is the hunters who will suffer the loss. This though we do not probably need elk meat to live. Its hunters who fork out the money to carry out projects that save habitat and resore populations of game animals to numbers that are near record highs. They may have a little trouble collecting such funds from mr. and Mrs Wolf.
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Old 12-22-2004, 12:24 AM
  #20  
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Idaho hunter 58 I have not gone to any meetings. They (not sure who except they were anti-wolf) had a meeting here in IF last year, but the catch was to go to the meeting you had to buy the dinner meal. The money used to buy the meal was used for fighting the wolves, not for the cost of the meal. The meal was donated by a local owned restaruant. Now I didn't or don't have a problem with any of this. I fully support anything against wolves, but the dinner/program was 25 dollars a person. I just didn't have the money to spend at the time. I wish they would have let people attend who didn't want the dinner but could have donate some money even if it was only 5$ to 10$. Anyone who went to the dinner could donate as much they wanted to. I asked if I could just donate some money and hear what was being said in the meeting. But I was told if I wanted to donate money to help out I would have to send it to such and such address. I was kind of dissapointed, and know that we need anyone and everyone on our side supporting the anti-wolf movement. This organization had good intentions but just went about it the wrong way IMHO.
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