recoil
 

I have read lots of tables that give various ft/lbs for the recoil of various sporting rifles, but they dont give an 'ouch' factor. At what level is recoil ok , when does it effect shooting and when does in really hurt. My 308 is classed as mild. if you fire it a couple of times then I agree. If your on the range and fire a 100 then it hurts and I cant hit anything. Taking just a normal days hunting when does recoil become a problem. At what ft/lb level.

RE: recoil
 

I am not sure how to gauge the "ouch" factor. However, I am pretty recoil shy. By that I mean that much recoil makes me less accurate. I am 6" and 185 lbs, and even my 270 will get to me at the shooting range, espeically when shooting Hornady 140 grain light magnum ammunition. What did I do about it? On my 270, I put a slip on recoil arrestor that is awesome for reduction of recoil ( a limb saver recoil pad). I got the slip on because it also fits my 7mm mag and my T/C Omega muzzleloader.

I also own a 338 win mag that really doesn' t seem to kick much, although I haven't shot it for long stretches at the range. I think it is because the gun is almost 10 lbs. A heavier gun definately helps with recoil.

I would recommend trying a limb saver pad. It will make a big difference. http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Cat...imb_Saver.htm# Remember that the slip on will add length to your gun unlike relpacing the existing pad with a custom fit pad. And no, I don't own stock in the company.

RE: recoil
 

Recoil is as much the shockwave of sound from the muzzle blast as it is the force pushing the gun into your shoulder. You can reduce felt recoil by 1. muzzle break, 2. Gel recoil pad, 3. ear plugs.

RE: recoil
 

That’s a pretty hard question to answer. All depends on the individual. For my self shooting 7mm Rem. mag is not a problem up to a point. I could shoot 20 , 30 round without having any problem but after that and depending on the load it’s starts bothering me. That’s when I stop. No sense in shooting if you’re going to be all over the paper because of the so called ouch factor.
My brother has a 338 Win Mag. and I hate shooting that rifle at the range, especially when it was time to sight it in. Shooting at a deer is not a problem but shooting at paper is something else.
Definitely having a heavier gun will help but it all depend on the individual as I mentioned..

RE: recoil
 

Thats true. You don't really notice recoil when the adrenaline is pumping.

RE: recoil
 

I could be shooting a 243 or 50-BMG at a 6x6 bull elk, and could not tell you how the recoil felt at the moment of truth? I never have felt the recoil while hunting. I sure have felt it off of the bench.[&:]
That being said I sure wish I could learn to shoot big magnums better off of the bench? There must be some tricks to shooting the big magnums off of the bench?[:o] The best I can do with a 300-win mag is about 20-rounds before I start to flench.

RE: recoil
 

Bambi,
I can shoot all day at the bench and it doesn't bother me cause I use the head cover off my driver as a recoil pad between my rifle and my shoulder.
Shooting at the range is not a test of how much punishment the shooter can take.
I would say for me the difference would be at the 25-06 to .280 jump.
25-06 I can shoot without even thinking about the recoil, when I go to the .280 I start to notice it, mainly because I pay close attention to keeping the scope away from my eye as I got busted there pretty good with a 7mag and don't ever want to have that happen again.
Took me a long time to get over the resulting flinch!

Shooting in the field I normally hunt with my .300 win mag and I never notice the recoil in the field.

You can lessen your recoil by using lighter bullets at slower velocity and choosing a powder that requires less grains of powder to reach your desired velocity in your loads, also using a heavier rifle and a good recoil pad help a lot.

RE: recoil
 

hey bambi

i also own a 308. it scares the liven *#*$ out of me even when i'm taken a shot at a deer or on the bench. i shot my buddy 300 win mag and it didn't even bother me due to the way they kick.

I know my 308 kicks up and back where the 300 kicked straight back

RE: recoil
 

Alot of recoil is due to stock fit also,if you have 308 kicken ya realy hard look at the stock desing.I have a Savage .270 that kicks the heck out of me,but a freinds daughter all ways uses it for deer and she loves it,takes over my Ruger #1 25-06.
I shoot some pretty stout guns 300 RUM,300 WSM,.338 WM and a .416 Rem. these are guns on the upper class of recoil and they don't hurt me as bad as that .270

They say a persons comfort range is around 15-18 ft/ bs of recoil,that is about the upper end of a 180gr. 30-06 or 150 gr. 270.
A 300 WSM is about 23 ft/lbs
A .338 Win Mag is right around 30-35 ft/lbs and .300 RUM is at 42 ft/lbs of recoil OUCH!!
Chuck Hawks used to have recoil tabel you could look at but now you have to be a member of the web page.

RE: recoil
 

Being at the range vs in the field hunting are worlds apart, as wolf said I have never recalled the recoil when shooting at game. I can say I have felt it off a bench though. The tolerance to recoil is dependant on the person, I would simply go by when you start to feel it...pack up. Absolutely nothing good will come out of spraying paper or becoming aware of recoil. I have shoulder problems and as soon as I feel the tingle I am done for that day - somedays it can be 20 rounds others it can be 50. When I had a 300wby. I'd implement the services of an insulated glove which allowed me to shoot comfortably. I just rapped it with duct tape and removed it following my range sessions, of course in the field it was never a problem or required as you won't be plinking off 20 rounds at a time...I HOPE;)!

RE: recoil
 

Its when you start to finch! Its a bad idea to shoot any gun so much at one time that it hurts you. It could cause bad thing in the future. I have a friend that had to "run with the big boys" and bought a .338 RUM. He was a ok shot before this new guy, now he can't hit a thing with any gun. He might as well just hunt with a shot gun because his pattern at a target looks the same. Its sad to see this happen to people, thats why I say shoot a gun that you can handle. If you can't handle a 338 or etc. shot a smaller gun. People have killed elk with a 243. I personlly think it a little light but if you can hit the animal in the right spot it will kill them every time. If you shoot a 338 bad it may kill the animal but you might not have any meat left! I shoot a 300 RUM and it is much better on my shoulder now because I put a custom brake on it. It doen't hurt anymore and that when I got better at shooting it.

RE: recoil
 

In general,

Barring prior injury, and provided one has the fundamentals of rifle construction/set up/fit and the techniques for handling higher recoil firearms covered (most folks just shoot "out of the box" and do not address any of them), then the issue of felt recoil and one's ability to handle felt recoil varies almost entirely by the individual's mental state and attitude.

With that said, the "bigger boys" are not intended for use as gallery guns nor target rifles to run a 100 rounds thru in one setting. Once you have established that the rifle is sighted in and you have demonstrated that you can "hit" with it from a few different field positions, then there is really no need to go any further -- volume shooting will not improve accuracy in this case. End on a good note and put it away and then switch over and reward yourself and play with something more "fun and easy" like a 30-06 etc. on down to 22LR. Always strive to "wrap up" feeling good about things, even if things go really well and you'll be finishing sooner than you expected.

At MagFest 2003, a group of us weighing from 165 to 230 shot: 7mmRemMag, 300WinMag, 338WinMag, 375H&HMag, 416RemMag, 416 Rigby, 458WinMag, and 500 NitroExpress --- everyone's general opinion was recoil? Really not a big deal! Then again the issues mentioned above for managing recoil were implemented, monitored, and enforced VERY closely --- it was a hoot. :D:D:D:D

Quoting HuntingGirl, "I kind of like a rifle that kicks a bit!" [Aggrrrr!]

EKM

RE: recoil
 

Being able to handle recoil is a mental state of mind. You have to lean into the rifle and take the recoil if you expect to hit anything with it. You have to mentally tell yourself no matter what I'm going to hit that spot I'm aiming at. Saying that, all manners of calibers can fall into that catagory. I've seen people flinch from rifles that have no kick. They expect to be hammered everytime they pull the trigger no matter what they shoot. It's in the mind at the beginnning. Theres also the other factors of stocks, weight of rifle, and eye relief on scopes.

An ill made gun or low weight magnum rifles can cause some serious recoil. The first 300 winmag I ever owned I bought it cheap at a elk banquet for $300. It was a remington ADL synthetic stocked 300win mag and I tell you it was the most horrible rifle for recoil I've ever owned. It didn't sit long in the safe before it was traded off.

But along those lines recoil has never bothered me more than muzzle blast. Muzzle breaks are not an option for me. On a bench rifle with ear muffs okay but in a hunting situation who is going to be wearing hearing protection or take the time to put it on before they shoot. They would be absolutely dangerous if you couldn't hear someone yelling at a distance if the situation became dangerous.

Most people will not have good results from recoil from light weight rifles without muzzlebrakes. The longer you can hold that rifle steady as the bullet leaves the barrel the more accurate you will be. You flinch you miss. If your going to shoot a powerful caliber make sure it's in a rifle that has some weight behind it.

I don't mind the kick I just like to hear after the shot. lol

RE: recoil
 

Felt recoil or torture test, I have felt them both.

Last year I was geting ready for my mule deer hunt in Co. My plans was to take my 300 Win Mag and 30-06 in case something happen to the 300. I wanted new brass for both when I started working up my loads, so I bought 100 shells for each. I wanted to powder form each shell for each gun prior to working up my actual hunting loads. I started with the 300, loaded all 100 shells, and went to the bench. I might add, I have two targets on my property, one at 100 yds and 30 yds, because I wasn't interested in accuracy to start, I shot at the shortest one. It didn't matter because after that thing got thru stomping me I didn't care what I hit.

The 300 is a Weatherby Vang. and now I remember why I hadn't shot it in the last 15 or 20 yrs. After 20 rounds, I cut me a piece of foam rubber that was left over from having my house carpeted, and slid it under my shirt. Believe it was 5/8s' in. thick, after the next 10 or 15 shots, I cut another piece of carpet mat and taped the two together and slid them under my shirt. After another 10 shots, I cleaned it, boxed it back up, and put it up for another 20 yrs.

Loaded 100 rds for my 30-06 and 7mm-08. Worked up loads and went to Co. Kilt me a deer with my ole 06 while in Co. and put that 300 to bed.

Felt recoil, you betcha, that thing stomped me like a mule in a hornets nest. And to think, I used to love that gun. I'll probably just hunt with the 08 this year, 243 next yr, 223 the next and so on. Can't take that puninshment any more, may be all that I've taken over the years.

As the ole saying goes, "It's hard to remember that you're there to drain the swamp, when you're up to your rear in alligators." My suggestion, as others have said, if you can't shoot because of flinching (pain), shoot something that don't hurt you.

dog1

RE: recoil
 

Good posts IMO.....Also for those that have a flinch problem, with practice that can be fixed. I feel pretty sure that ELKampMaster knows well the training it takes to avoid flinch. Flinch is nothing to be ashamed of, and very common. Also is infact an initial reflex action....it takes training and range time to overcome. My late dad who was a military lifer taught me when I was young to avoid flinch by dry firing if there was a problem.... to avoid that reflex reaction. Thankfully I was what dad called a "natural" Some do not care for that method...So.... Shoot targets in off season and practice...that way you know that, you can do what is needed when you have to take that shot. Respect the animal, and even though you know you have one in the pipe, and more in the chamber.......Make one shot count please!:)

RE: recoil
 

Christine B,

How is your 375 H&H doing?
Have you taken it out for exercise lately? :):):)

EKM

RE: recoil
 

EKM, It is doing just fine. I have to admit that my first shot after it was given to me even though I was prepared dang near put me on my butt! LOL :D However, the ammo that was also given to me were 300 grainers. I did go good however with one heck of a bruise. I am just a tad stubborn. Hee Hee Now I take it out periodically and shoot 2 groups of 3, just to know that I am accurate....and am using 200 grainers now.....major difference. [8D]
Most of the time it has its spot of affluence in the gun safe waiting for that African Safari or Grizz hunt someday. ;) I have not put a scope on it yet, however it is amazing how accurate it is open sighted!
For the most my I will stick with my trusty 30.06 w/ 180 grainers. Gotta love that rifle as it as never let me down! Alway one shot, one kill. My Pre-64 Winchester 375 H&H mag is to much gun for Whitetails IMO. LOL Can't imagine why........ :D I am proud that I know if and when I need it I am proficient enough to do what would need to be done. Thanks for asking...... I knew that you would remember my friend. :)

RE: recoil
 

EKM makes a good point. You can fire the big kickers enough to be sure where they hit and that you can handle the gun and that the load is right. Then do your recreational shooting with a caliber that is fun for you to shoot. For some it may be a 7mm Mag and for some, like me, a 257 Roberts, 250 Savage or one of the Varmit calibers like 223 or 22-250 is where my enjoyment level starts. I use an extra pad in my shooting vest for sighting in rifles with heavy recoil. As many have said, I have never felt the kick of a gun while shooting at game. I don't enjoy shooting even my 308 and 30-06 from the bench without an extra recoil pad. My 308 is the Browning A bolt lightweight stalker and it hits pretty hard on both ends. My 06 Pump does not SEEM to kick as much as my 308. The 06 pumps fit me well.

RE: recoil
 

This is a good thread and even better responses. There are so many factors, pain threshold, caliber, grain, recoil pad, etc. I would have to agree, find the right mix between enjoyable to shoot with enough stopping power. I have a 30-06 with a stock, as hard as a rock I might add, recoil pad and it is good for 15 or so shots (180gr) before you start to feel it. The funny thing is you notice the kick and decibel level at the range, but I have yet to remember when I am in the field saying, wow that hurt or it was loud.

Everyones advice about flinching is dead on. If you are worried about the recoil, you are likely to jerk your shot and miss. Or worse end up with a wounded animal that you spend the rest of the day tracking.

I have shot my brother-in-laws 338 and his 375 at the range and that is not an enjoyable experience. :(. If I shoot it 3-5 times and they are within 2-3 inches of one another, I figure good enough. However they are necessary if you are going brown bear hunting.

RE: recoil
 

MagFest II???

RE: recoil
 

ColoradoElk,

MagFest II? Alas, we can get together somewhere and have some fun, but the Cherry Creek Shooting Center no longer exists --- victim of the anti-gun do-gooders and the Cherry Creek State Park. Allan Duckworth (the African PH) and Peggy are heading back to Tanzania to plan their next move. That is going to leave us thin at the 458 and 500 caliber slots, unless you picked up that 500 Nitro Express double or have picked up a new acquaintance since last year (460 Weatherby would be nice!)

Allan was a strict taskmaster and addressed big bore issues one does not even normally consider when hunting North American Game. He and Peggy will be sorely missed.

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

RE: recoil
 

I just spent some time on the range Sunday sighting in my .300 RUM for this fall's elk season.

A friend who will be joining me for the first time brought along a .270 and a Weatherby .300. We shot all three rifles. My .300 RUM has a muzzle break on it, but my friend's Weatherby did not.

The difference between the two (.300 RUM is slightly faster and more powerful) was startling! My RUM actually felt tame with the break on it.

Someone up above hit the nail on the head when they mentioned dry firing. I'm an old retired Army fud, and dry firing is always part of my "warm up" regimen on the range before launching bullets especially with my RUM. It took me a little while to get used to its recoil, never having owned a magnum rifle before a few years ago.

I sight in the RUM, clean it and put it away in prep for the season. I do the tune up shooting prior to hunting with a mild loaded 06 to get the rhythm and muscle memory down of quickly getting the rifle up and on target. I do this both dry fire and live fire.

I can't say that I actually remember felt recoil in the field.
Regards.

RE: recoil
 

Years ago My first deer rifle was a Ruger M77, very light ... I think a
"mountain rifle" in .308. I had never shot anything centerfire much at all before. The recoil bothered me some with just Wal-Mart loads. Had a chance to up-grade and wound up with a Rem. 700, in .308 again. I would guess the Rem. weighs about a pound more than the Ruger, but the difference in weight allowed me to overcome the flinch problem. Never shot any magnum stuff, but a little bit of weight seemed to help me. I now shoot stuff like Fed. Premium High-Energy, to boot. For my area and type of hunting .308 seems like enough but we're not talking very big or dangerous game, either.

Nothing against the Ruger... It's just that the recoil thing got inside my
head and changing rifles helped me get it straightened out, mentally and physically. I guess what I'm saying is that flinch has a mental component as well as physical.

RE: recoil
 

EKM, have you been in Sweden???

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubb...t=1#Post667674

RE: recoil
 

No, I haven't been to Sweden, but that Big Bore shooters get-together would be as good a reason as any to go to Sweden. Maybe we should see about putting together a MagFest 2004, perhaps up at your range in the mountains, or (just as a thought) out in the Pawnee National Grasslands east of Ft. Collins. I would be quite intigued if we could get someone with a 458 Lott, 460 Weatherby, 505 Gibbs, and a 50 BMG.

Note: this recoil thread sure dried up in a hurry when it became obvious we have women out there shooting 375 H&H's. ;)

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

RE: recoil
 

Funny, I noticed that too EKM. And contrary to what some might think...The women that post on this board are 110% all woman, straight, many married, some with kids and without and some single moms. ;) Point is we love to hunt, the outdoors, and shooting just as much as the guys do! And we do so rather well. ;):) Our reasons may vary but I would guess are very similar. Kudos to the women and men of this board that make it such a good one!

RE: recoil
 

Well, that makes things easy. MagFest2004. EKM, you pick the date. We can meet up in the mountains or at Pawnee, your choice. BTW, I have two "acquaintances" on the way I am sure you would love to meet. I expect you will pick up the travel tab for Moderators and their families...

Let me know.

CE

RE: recoil
 

ColoradoElk, That would be a bit much to expect don't ya think? However.....one can wish can't they. ;)

RE: recoil
 

How much the recoil effects you depends on how you are built. A larger man who weighs more than a smaller guy is not affected by recoil as much because he can soak it up. I think it also depends on the pain tolerance of the guy shooting the gun. Some people like the sharp kick of a rifle, while others dont.

Also, THE MUZZLE BLAST DOES NOT AFFECT THE RECOIL! I DONT KNOW WHERE BRUTALATTACK CAME UP WITH THAT ONE, BUT ITS COMPLETELY UNTRUE. AND A MUZZLE BREAK ACTUALLY INCREASES THE MUZZLE BLAST! IT REDUCES RECOIL BY DISPERSING THE GASSES THAT COME OUT OF THE END OF THE BARREL SO THAT THERE ISNT AS MUCH GAS PUSHING THE RIFLE BACKWARDS INTO THE SHOOTER'S SHOULDER! DONT LISTEN TO WHAT BRUTALATTACK IS TELLING YOU.

RE: recoil
 

EKM,

Have you checked out the lineup this year for CZ rifles? They added a new 550 American Safari and they offer it in 458 Lott. Could be a good partner to your BRNO .416 Rigby.


NBH

RE: recoil
 

Hey ElKampMaster,

FYI - I read in the Denver Post yesterday that the Cherry Creek Shooting Center is opening up again.

RE: recoil
 

Windriverhunter, Personally as a lady I cannot stand heavy recoil....much to my dads dismay I used to be a wuss but that was before I was a teenager. Being military he liked to push his oldest child somewhat. Dry firing helped.....between that and much range time in almost 50 years I have learned well. Still love my 30.06 with 180 grainers though....
The 375.H&H is reserved for something special sometime...maybe a Grizzer hunt. I am accurate to a fault with it but think it is to much gun for anything other than Grizz, or Elephant...... JMO And little I know. ;):)

P.S. The .06 would do for a Grizz...but I would much rather put my odds on the .375. [8D] I have a small son to raise....