I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

How can we expose the fraud that our Ontario Provincial Liberals and the MNR Minister David Ramsay has perpetrated on the residents of the north when the spring bear hunt was not reinstated as the committee with their extensive study recommended but instead the MNR would take other measures to control the nuisance bears. These measures seem to be a 1-800-514-BEAR number with a recorded message which directs callers to "call 911 if this is an emergency life threatening (bear) problem". How absurd! Is this a joke? Someone with an emergent life threatening bear problem is going to be on the phone calling a 1-800 number? GIVE ME A BREAK. What has this done to deal with the increase in the bear population and the nuisance bear encounters? It has done nothing to correct the problem. It's just a feeble attempt to deal with a problem after it has occurred. But look a little further. A 911 call in rural northern Ontario goes to the OPP. What have they done? They have simply off loaded the bear problem to the OPP who often are too busy especially during spring,summer & fall in cottage country to handle the police calls they receive. Someone will be killed or seriously injured soon. It's only a matter of time. Damn politicians. gg.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

i think if i was haveing a bear problem i would SHOOT it the call the 1800 number

they make many poison that you can buy. if it is not legal to poison them you simply throw the poison in the trashcan with some donuts

sounds like your problem stems from letting the stupid make the laws i thought that was only a US problem

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

Why would you want to poison the bears. It's certainly not their fault that the idiot humans can't see the forest through the trees. The bears are just being bears. It is our responsibility to control the populations and keep them healthy and bear / human encounters to a minimum. Don't make the bears suffer from being poisonned just because Canada has a bunch of idiots running the show.

Maybe when enough people and pets get attacked in their own homes they will reconsider their plan of attack and allow hunters to hunt them and ceep them in check humanely.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

I agree with bigbull, we moved in there area. We should respect all animals.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

If we're going to do any poisoning, direct your anger where it belongs, not at the bears, but the politicians. They're the ones who should be shoved in a garbage can, right where they belong. Its a neck and neck race as to who the earths scum is, lawyers or politicians. I just can't seem to make up my mind.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

So when are we gonna start poisoning politicans? The only problem with politicians is that there like cockroaches, you can't kill em all, they'll just keep comin

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

GoodGuy,

Boy that is a tough one. They must assume your bears are very well mannered to give the intended victim all that time to do their dialing and then wait for the mountie to show up.

Damn, urban based, PC cowered politicians anyhow! It seems like they have to wait for a grisly incident or a death or both before they "wake up". What ever happened to plain "nuts and bolts" common sense? It is a mystery.

Good Luck and Good Hunting (all those bears)
EKM

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

Two words, New Jersey. I know how you feel.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

Ya but the problem in that senario from what I understand is gun control is gettin out of hand up north so you probably don't have anything to shoot with. And if you do your in the "pokey" and not having a bear problem;)[:-]

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

wow i see some of you are against poisoning

so all you non poisoners tell me how you are supposed to deal with wolves here in wyoming. your not supposed to shoot them, the hole i moved in there territorey dont work because they were not here when i move to wy, my grandparents had rid the land of them
if we have problems with them we are supposed to call the game and fish

then everybody comes out and investigates your garbage, dead dog, and slaughtered livestock

after 2 or 3 weeks they say yep its wolves. DUH

and they send a trapper out to try to relocate them if they are not succesful then they finaly kill them

this after spending thousands of wy g&f dollars on a couple of problem animals

seams to me the common sence thing is to shoot them or if they are coming in at night poison them

yes it is against the law to do both but if you cant kill the politicians(they wont step foot on my land) you can only protect what is yours

ps dont give me that poor wolf or poor bear thing they are fed better than most of us and have free range of billions of acres of land seem to me there stupidity gets them tons of rights already( wow that almost mimmiks humans)

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

How you are suppose to deal with the wolves is have a hunting season for them and keep their numbers in check that way.

No offence jjt, but IMO your grandparents and people like them are the reason why we are having the problems with them now. People either want then 100% gone or want them 100% protected. Maybe had they not irradicated them from the entire area in the first place and instead come up with some sensable management plan to deal with them you wouldn't be fighting with the people that want them 100% protected now.

Remember that your family moved into their land. Not the other way around. You brought the dinner plate to the wolves. It's a real pitty that you can't live with the wolves. You don't have the right to shoot or poison off an entire species that lives on the same land as you just because you have cattle there. The wolves didn't ask you to bring the cattle there so they could eat them. They are simply following their instincts and eating. Put up a fence to keep them out if it's that much of a problem.

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or maybee if they had not stopped at the canadian border, the problem would be solved

put up a fence that is a great idea and let see first there is the time and money ( a couple strings of barbed wire will not keep out a wolf)

then there is the fact that if you(wolf proof stops deer elk and antelope also) fence off 80,000 acres that the deer elk and antelope winter on i am killing 100s maybee 1000s of ungulates

all the ranches around me have problems with deer elk and antelope yet we understand they need a place to winter be it very costly to us somewhere you got to draw the line and when they start eating livestock (source of income) that is the line

i dont care what peta or the rest of the wolf lovers think

if they become a problem YOU have to deal with them the government is not going to help or give you any other means so you find away to semi leagaly take care of the problem

the initial issue was 100 wolves inside the barrier of the park they are now pushing 7-800 with no control in sight

so i look at ist as the US fish and game has pretty much screwed us as far as i am allowing
we (WY)have put forth a very good management plan and it was regected so now we wait and wait and wait
well now it is calving season and i am tired of waiting

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

Bears!......bears!......bears! Politicians!......politicians!......politicians! We're talking about bears & damn politicians - not wolves.:D gg

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

also big bulls

you might inquire as to colorados wolf management plan as they are almost there

there was several cows and sheep confirmed to be killed by wolves in the rawlins area in 03-04 winter

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

jjt,

I grew up on a ranch and though solidly anchored in the city now, I empathize with your prospective. Unless you are out on land trying to earn a living and are having to deal with the government AND the wolves you just don't know what you are missing.

Regarding wolf "management" plans:

I heard one fellow who advocated the "3 S" approach to wolf management:
(1) shoot, (2) shovel, (3) shut up....

only slightly different from the government programs of yester year (are we SURE they were wrong?).....
(1) shoot, (2) drag it to town, (3) get paid.

Sorry, GG arguably similar government stupidity down here in the lower 48. Regarding bears around here, they've eliminated the spring hunt and dogs and bait are no longer legal and now they are complaining about burgeoning populations of marauding bears.... duh.

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

That's the whole problem right there. No one that's in charge of this type of thing has enough common sense to realize before hand that eventually they will need to be kept at a manageable and healthy population and that means allowing a specific number of them to be legally killed each year. They prefer to wait until it becomes a huge problem on the other end of the spectrum. People are either for total protection or total irradication but it just doesn't work that way. Same goes with bears and mountain lions.

Like everything else in life you gotta take the good with the bad. You live in bear, mountain lion, and wolf territory. They gotta make a living too and I highly doubt that they can tell the difference between a elk, moose or cow calf. It's all food to them. I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think that the wolf, or bear or mt. lion should have to suffer because of idiots that haven't got a clue about wildlife management.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

GOODGUY
i appologise for bringing the wolves into your thread it just sounded like your problem resembled the problem we have here be it a different animal still the same type dumba$$es in charge

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

black bears, cougars, and coyotes are all managed very well here in WY making problems almost nonexistent, when there are problems they are delt with in a quick manner

call the game warden, they will come investigate and then the proper action will be taken

if you catch the predator in the act you are allowed to exterminate it then call the game warden he will come and investigate it and take care of the proper paper work

crude but very effective

that is all we want for the wolves/grizzlies and we cant get nothing out of the US game and fish except our management plan is unexceptable

these guys are not the sportsmens friend and infact are becoming a very left wing oriented group with little or no responcibility to the actions

when it becomes a problem they pass it off to somebody else just like GOODGUY mentioned the canadian dwr did

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

After rereading my post above I just wanted to clarify that in the last sentance I wasn't refering to anyone here being an idiiot. It might have come across that way. I was actually refering to the idiots that are making the decisions regarding these so called wildlife management plans that really don't have a clue.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

Actually I don't think there is anything wrong with handling things that way. I've personally always been an advocate of protecting your livelyhood. You're not going to wipe out an entire predator species with that kind of behavior. In fact I doubt that a species would even see much of a dent because of this. I think ranchers are hating the wolves because the government basically ties thier hands behind thier back and lets the wolves eat thier livelyhood right in front of them.

I could be wrong but I think bigbulls was trying to say is ranchers start to get the attitude that they have to right to kill them period. Doesn't matter where the wolves are or what they are doing some will kill them just because its a wolf and thats not right either. If they see one 10 miles away from thier ranch they'll shoot em. They'll be out deer hunting and they'll shoot em. Thats how some of these species get wiped out, they get categorized as a nuisance and some even call them evil. They are just an animal doing what animals do and they were here long before we were.

There has to be a management plan to keep a species in check. Hunting not only keeps population levels in check but pressure usually keeps animals out of populated areas. Ranchers should have to the right to shoot to kill if a predator is caught in the act.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

rather

if you read closely you will see predator does not refer to wolves as of right now they are still a protected species in WY this offers some alternatives but anytime one is found dead especially on a ranch the US fish and game get involved

i can promise you these guys/gals are the biggest self serving idiots that the US education system has put out yet

they are motivated by there feelings and there common sence is non existent

after all of the lies they have spewed here and there approach to finding a compromise and there tactics when an animal is killed by someone other then them. I would rank them second to PETA

With them:
you are guilty until proven innocent
they tresspass on your land with no reprocusion(and no warrant)
they would rather tell you lies and some BS story than get the facts and try to tell the truth
and i can promice you as a sportsman they dont give a $hit what you or any other sportsman wants
they are run by/with a very left wing agenda

that is my take on them and a good many other sportsman in this area that has had to deal with them

Please dont confuse the US game and fish with the WY g&f
as the WY g&f is doing there best to help all involved (sportsman landowners ranchers etc)

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

Yeah, I know that. I was simply trying to connect two dots. The discussion as I was seeing it was turning towards what rights ranchers should have vs. what they have done in the past to erradicate a species. I know wolves are protected but I firmly believe a man ought to be able to protect his property as you were saying. I also think there ought to be a management plan in place BEFORE they ever release one animal.

But I also see bigbulls' point about ranchers killing every one they see anywhere, anytime. In the past this was the practice and the whole reason these animals are protected. There weren't many left because of fear and ignorance and people started killing every animal they saw. Now ranchers are paying the price for the mistakes of thier heritage. However I do think its wrong that the gov isn't doing more to help ranchers out.

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

I hear your issues and agree 100%, there are bear problems in Northern Ontario and the politicians don't want to deal with it. But you missed a very good way to show their ignorance............ keep that 1-800- full of calls 24 hrs a day, even for the most ignorant sitings of bears. That will force them to deal with it.

Protection of your property and family are paramount and may require the shouting of a few black bears.

Just my 2 cents,

340

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

I have to agree with you our bear problem is very real here in north western ontario.I guess our politicians think its ok to have your kids scared half to death by a big cinnomon in your back yard,or your shed door ripped in half,or your dog fighting with a big black in your yard. Oh ye I am speaking from experiance. and gun control i dont even want to start on that. I live in the country but I cant discharge a fire arm here any more,well im glade my dog knows how to run the bears off the property.someone will get hurt up here yet its just a matter of time

RE: I Am Outraged !#%^@&
 

It is sad but that is exactly what it is going to take to get this resolved for you guys. It's probably going to take a lot of people getting hurt or killed to open peoples eyes to the real solution.

I wish you guys luck on this one.

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I think we need a politician season everyone get's thier first tag free. they're more of a niusance than the bears the way I see it . None of them hunt or have any idea's of what goes on in the north, other than to visit cottage land on weekend's ,so they don't care about anyone but themselves. The people who have these law's pass don't live North they all live in the city and don't have this problem ,so that's why these stupid rule's get passed . They couldn't care less about the people of the north.They would do just about anything for a vote . Well spoken Goodguy.

nubo