akbound

In keeping with the spirit of the original question.....the compass (with topo). As long as I'd continue to function....so would they. Fortunately this is a rhetorical exercise. I use both....will continue to use both....and can not imagine "any" circumstance that would prevent me from doing so.

But, I'd never "rely" on only the GPS. (At least until we have reached the technological point that signals are "never an issue".....and batteries "never go dead".

Maybe an even more interesting question would be, "How many of you actually could be blind folded.....dropped in an "unknown wilderness area"......and with either of the above tools mentioned would trust your life to "your ability" to find your way home?

Coastie

akbound, an interesting scenario, how would you measure up? I believe I could do it without either.

sawbill

I'd always pick a map and compass but I'm kinda stubborn and fixed in my ways. As for the last question, I believe that using a map and compass gives you an better feel for the land, You pay more attention to contours, where the sun is, directions rivers and lakes drain. It sets you up to be more aware of your surroundings thus better preparing yourself mentally to handle getting out on your own.
But I did get turned around in downtown Toronto one time. No sun and no moss on the dang buildings. Now for a northerner, that was scary.

Coastie

Sawbill, there are places here in the South where the darn moss grows on all side of the trees, talk about confusing for us damn yankees!! You have to adjust to looking for the Mountain Laurel growing on the Northern slope of a hill or mountain and throw in a bit of Kentucky windage for good measure.

I do not mean to come off as such a hard nosed SOB on this subject, but I have spent too many nights looking for people that should have known better than to have gotten into the situation they found themselves in to begin with.
One guy got his wife and daughter his neighbor and his wife and daughter killed
by doing something just absolutely stupid. There is no reason to depend on a single source of information especially when your life can hang in the balance.

sawbill

I agree, use what you have if you can, whether its GPS, the sun, the stars or a compass and map. Just as an example, I spent a short time working with the MNRin the Hudson Bay lowlands where the land is flat as a pancake but the willow grew thick and about 10 ft tall. You couldn't see 20 ft unless you were on the banks of a river. The natives there showed me a few tricks. Firstly, moss grew on the south side of trees because of the shortage of daylight. Secondly, they showed me the seashells. When the glaciers retreated and the waters ebbed, the open ends of the seashells filled with fine sand, then weighted down as they now were, spun with the receding water and all pointed to the north. One old guy who was showing me this stuff looked at me and laughed, and said 'You can never get lost in this country' I was suitably impressed with this crusty old gent. And I guess this points out the fact that being a southerner is all relative.

Tim Buma

I would use a compass without taking a GPS, but I would not use a GPS without also taking a compass.
So the direct answer is my compass would be my preference if I was allowed only one.
Having said that, the GPS is far more user friendly and accurate.
(i.e. human error is easy with a compass.)
I use a very basic one (Garmin E-Trex) and am really impressed.
Just this week I have been involved in a mountain search & rescue, (It took 5 days) which thankfully ended with two live girls being rescued offa very remote cliff face. All search paties carried GPS's and at the end of each task, the data was downloaded to a computer, so that search managers could track exactly which areas had been covered by searchers, also which areas had been swept with helicoptor search teams.

akbound

Hi Coastie,

I have enough confidence in myself to believe I could do it....and maybe without either, (at least on land). But I'd never be fool enough to put myself into a position of finding out! (Short of falling from the sky at 30,000 ft. when the airliner breaks apart....or someone carting me off at "gunpoint" and dropping me off!)

My point being....that the equipment mentioned in the original post will allow someone to navigate in unknown terrain....but only if the person knows how to use it. And nearly as importantly as the knowledge is having confidence in both the equipment....and your skills. More than a few people, with navigational aids, have "gotten lost", panicked, and died (and many more put themselves into foolish predicaments each year because of either the lack of navigational aids, skills, or confidence).

I am equally certain that given the right (ie. wrong) set of circumstances.....nearly anyone can get themselves into trouble. So why tempt fate? Obtain the tools, learn to use them, and practice enough to gain/maintain proficiency and confidence. Then practice some good old fashioned common sense when you venture into true wilderness!

Over the years I've been in situations where I wasn't sure exactly where I was...sometimes I was responsible for having put myself there....and sometimes I was not. But I did learn not to entirely trust anyone else with my safety...even in the military. (Maintain as much awareness of your environment as you can under the tactical considerations.) For in the end....it doesn't really matter "who" put you there....it only matters if "you" can get yourself out! And all the equipment in the world will do you not "one wit" of good if you don't maintain your composure.

If your question was asked...competitively?!? I don't know if I'm as "good" as you or not. I only know that I am good enough to get myself out of situations...that I get myself into!

Hope that answers your question satisfactorily.

P.S. Hey.....maybe that would be a good idea for a forum....one of those "wilderness walks" scenarios?

Coastie

akbound, I agree, and no there was no challenge intended.
The latest GPS receiver chip sets contain some pretty neat stuff and they get better every year, they are at a point today where accuracy has improved and the ability to receive in areas of heavy cover without error due to multipath problems is fantastic. If the WAAS service is ever perfected and all of the birds funded we will have a great system but folks still need to learn how to use them properly and to read a map and use a compass.
My personal GPS is a Garmin 12 XL which I have owned and used since the model was first introduced in 96, it is time for a new one and I am leaning toward the 12 XL again only because I already own an external antenna that fits them and many of the less expensive models can't be used with the external antenna. The software in the old unit cannot be upgraded either which puts me at a bit of a disadvantage at times.

akbound

Hi again Coastie,

You did notice the wink.....didn't ya? I didn't take your previous post(s) in any kind of a negative way. It did cause some interesting thoughts to occur for me, though. I remember being in situations where due to circumstances either I, (or sometimes we....as in squad, etc.), would have to sit down, throw out a poncho, pull out the topos, and "start from scratch...sorta" ....because "someone" hadn't been "paying attention". Or in an instance or two....someone (ie. the man with the maps, compass, etc.) didn't know what they were doing. And early in my life, military career, that someone was occasionally me.

I also remember seeing my first "GPS" unit. It was mounted in the back of a CUC-V, (a pickup or Surburban adapted for military use....when the U.S. Army was phasing out the Jeep and hadn't yet fielded the Hummer). The "GPS" unit was vehicle mounted...must have weighed between 50 to 100 pounds....was "classified" so getting a really good look wasn't certain for "just anyone".....and we (my unit) were (was) using it to determine positions for setting up an ECS (electronic control center) for a PATRIOT missle battery. I was part of an Infantry element assigned to 10th ADA in the Federal Republic of Germany (FRG) which eventually were to become part of the first PATRIOT missle battalion sent to the FRG. Because I was the RSOP NCOIC I assisted in "turning the angles" and "laying in the guns". (Yes...they're missles...but venacular changes slowly ...if at all....in the military.) But I really digress.....what I remember most of my very first exposure with that "unit" was in order for us to accuractely determine that first "point"....there was a fixed appendage on the vehicle that you placed "over the exact spot" on the ground that you were using as a "marker". Those units were receiving the military signal....not the "mixed" civilian signal which if I recall was "intentionally off by as much as 100 meters". GPS technology was considered that sensitive at that time.

We have indeed come a long way. Because I am currently "rusty" on my GPS skills.....many personal things in our lives conspired to limit my "outdoors" time the last several years. And because technology grows by leaps and bounds....frequently "upgrading" several times annually, I am now in the middle of a good read on GPS. And have a couple more books planned for the next several months.....because I am once again looking for a good unit that will best serve my anticipated upcoming needs. (For use in Alaska when we get back.) With the exception of using my nephews "new GPS" for estasblishing some waypoints I haven't used one for the last three years. And the last Garmin I had was at that time a $99. entry level that has since "gone" to a brother-in-law. So before my next purchase....I'm learning features new and (refamiliarizing) with "old" 2 or 3 years ago features.....and trying to determine how many features I really could put to use. And of course trying to sort out capatability/expandability features I think that I can really utilize. (What can be frustrating is that by the time you've finished reading any book that has been brought to hard publication, (ie. is in paper form of some kind), the newest GPS technology has already evolved. Particularly in mapping, computer compatability related issues. H**l, even Honda is selling several ATV machines with GPS built in......batteries may not be as big an issue in future consideration. But now what is.....is the question...I have. Are the units on the newest Honda ATV's compatable with a current handheld....and the info electronically transferable? And are these "in turn" compatable with other vehicle mounted and PC intercapable/transferable. (How is it transferred?) This has thrown another consideration into my already "belabored" learning process. (I am either getting "old and slow"....or technology is growing exponentially faster?!? And the scary part is.....I'm "slow enough" to not know which it is![X(])

Oh crap!!!!! I just realized as I sit here and type this (gosh, geewiz, an ephiphany)! I'm much more likely to get lost in this "technology".....than I am in the woods with just a map and a compass! Good grief! My head hurts....... I need another cup of coffee! I've got it finally figured out.....most of us are "lost" before we ever step foot into the woods.......and got to get out "there" to find ourselves again! (Did I already say....my head hurts!)

I need a break......and that cup of coffee! See ya in a "kick back".

P.S. Oh....and by the way....did I forget to mention that I'm also looking at and considering Marine suitable machines...in case I end up with a Zodiak...in and around Alaskan coastal waters and Prince William Sound? Ooooohhhhhh....my aching head[:'(]!

elknut1

I keep reading these posts and it seems to me the more you write the more you prefer a GPS.

Don't get me wrong, a compass in skilled hands is quite effective, as well as updated maps, which is not so easily attained.

First of all the reason I and others picked a GPS is not soley for getting into or out of the woods , I use one because of its versatility under any condition. I use a digital one, you do not have to move in order to recieve accurate bearings or info. It also has no trouble with thick timber or mountain sides. I get quick accurate readings under the severest conditions here in Idaho, even on the Salmon River breaks.
A compass is great for going in or coming out. It ends there! A gps enables me to lock in wallows, waterholes, heavily used areas, downed elk without any red flagging tape and return. Try that with a compass and a map.
We hunt thick areas, you cannot see out and pick out landmarks, it so heavily timbered I've never even taken binoculars hunting in the 13 yrs I've bowhunted elk. Now a compass will not help you to return to a downed elk in country as this. Also I can click on the gps and it will give me info on an easier route or area to remove a critter by previously locking in certain waypoints, which I have done over the years. In other words regardless of terrain, fog, heavy snows it will still give me accurate info to return to places I otherwise would find it impossible to return to.
I do carry a compass but it never comes out of my pack. Batteries will last me 12 months, I never walk with it on, I merely get a location shut it off and move on, so batteries are not an issue, besides there are indicators that let you know batteries are getting weak. I've owned a gps for years now, and for my situation it has served as invaluable. Maps are great, but require to much time and hassle to mess with if a gps is handy. Buy digital, there's a big difference between them and non digital. elknut1