Elk hunt in PA w/ pictures
11-10-2018, 06:08 AM
#11
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
congrats on your first elk!
btw you never mentioned the
weapon,brand,caliber, projectile, brand and weight, or scope you used?
nor exactly where your shot exactly hit and if it exited,
yeah you stated high shoulder, but more infos always helpful and interesting
btw you never mentioned the
weapon,brand,caliber, projectile, brand and weight, or scope you used?
nor exactly where your shot exactly hit and if it exited,
yeah you stated high shoulder, but more infos always helpful and interesting
Last edited by hardcastonly; 11-10-2018 at 06:11 AM.
11-10-2018, 08:06 AM
#12
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,436
I wanted to use my 45-70, however the Sunday before the hunt my outfitter takes all his clients to a range where he can see them shoot at 100 yards or further so he has an idea of their ability and the guides know when to say yes or no to the client. When I went up to shoot I managed a Marlin jam and it was catastrophic, we could not fix it. My guide who happened to be a good friend gave me his Remington 700 30-06. I was disappointed not to use my rifle and a bit worried about 150 grain bullets as I had 325 grn in my 45-70, but as it turned out it worked well. I was shooting slightly down hill at 140 yards, the bullet took off the top of the heart and came out one side. She bled out in less than a minute and was down. We found no exit wound or the bullet. I ruined very little meat.
Last edited by Oldtimr; 11-10-2018 at 08:10 AM.
11-10-2018, 12:08 PM
#13
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trumbull County, Ohio
Posts: 9,520
Bummer to hear about the rifle. At least it all worked out.
I've seen Marlins jam up bad enough that the action has to be pulled apart to clear them. The "Marlin jam" is well documented online and there are several solutions out there that delay, or prevent it from happening.
I still love my Marlins. But the fact that the "Marlin jam" is a recognised thing is a blemish on them.
-Jake
I've seen Marlins jam up bad enough that the action has to be pulled apart to clear them. The "Marlin jam" is well documented online and there are several solutions out there that delay, or prevent it from happening.
I still love my Marlins. But the fact that the "Marlin jam" is a recognised thing is a blemish on them.
-Jake
11-10-2018, 02:57 PM
#15
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
one of many reasons I traded a well liked and well used marlin 45/70, I owned,
in on a browning caliber 450 marlin BLR ,
and was very much pleased with the resulting upgrade,
in function, accuracy and over all performance.
the best load I found so far is not near the max level, its a 405 grain remington, bullet over a 215 fed primer and 50 grains of IMR3031
1.5" 3 shot groups are very common, with that load.
my rifle looks very similar to this picture I found posted
Lets call this a product test and recommendation,
the more I shoot my 450 marlin caliber BLR, the more I see it as almost the best possible compromise in power rapid fire and accuracy,and very effective power application, I've seen , this cartridge produces impressive power levels out to at least 250 yards with proper hand loads ,while not being abusive too the point you have to really think about it's recoil , before snapping it up to your shoulder and firing, its certainly not abusive due to recoil levels, but youll certainly know when the rifle fired.
its much easier to use than my 458 win and 458 lott bolt guns, in fact its just at that level where your sure the rifle fired but your not in the least worried about getting hit with a scope due to recoil, its a bit like a 338 win in that respect, darn effective without any significant abuse on the shoulder.
Ive been using a 405 rem over 50 grains of imr 3031 and a federal 215 primer , a 4x Leopold post & cross hair scope , the guns amazingly accurate easily under 1" 3 shot groups off the bench rest but Im more impressed with being able to knock empty coke cans off a fence at 80 yards almost as fast as I can site and squeeze off shots , and nothing Ive ever used before drops hogs like those big soft point 458 caliber slugs
(my 300 win mag comes close)but its not as easy to snap shoot
I can,t think of a single large game animal, like deer elk or black bear, hogs etc. Id ever hunt at under 200 yards that this would not work well on.
you can play with ballistic computers and trajectory charts for weeks if you care too but the math and facts won,t change,if you want to carry a useful rifle that you can expect to use in the feild with a reasonable trajectory, you can graph out the difference between all the potential bullet weights and velocity's, if you care to, (as an engineer I did that lots of times)it won,t change the fact that both the 45/70 and 450 marlin have very similar case capacity and if you graph out all the 300grn -500 grn projectiles loaded to max safe pressures, the 450 marlin holds a minor advantage with its slightly higher safe working pressure and that your most efficient loads based on trajectory, and retained energy and limited case capacity always favor the 350-430 grain projectiles.
look at the loads listed earlier, use a ballistic calculator
youll eventually be forced into that realization , by simple math
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady...c-calculators/
the additional 150-175 or so fps that the 450 marlin allows, over a 45/70 is not all that significant once you realize that the minor increase in impact energy and flatter trajectory will be a very minor advantage and either cartridge punches through an elk and whats behind it easily.
DECENT CAST BULLET SOURCE
http://westernbullet.com/45riflecaliber.html
http://www.browning.com/products/catalo ... d=006&bg=x
http://www.all4shooters.com/en/articles ... mmunition/
Re: 450 marlin handloads.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) 250 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 57.0 2,288
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 60.0 1,970
Remarks: 1.95 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 62.0 2,091
Remarks: 1.80 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 51.5 1,751
Remarks: 2.25 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 53.0 1,869
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 54.0 1,990
Remarks: 1.90 group
300 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 50.0 1,982
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon H-4198 48.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.60 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 59.0 1,770
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 61.0 1,821
Remarks: 1.70 group
350 Kodiak FP IMR IMR-3031 56.0 1,827
Remarks: 1.55 group
350 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-335 60.0 1,872
Remarks: 1.20 group
400 Speer FN Hodgdon H-4895 56.0 1,773
Remarks: 1.75 group
405 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-322 52.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.50 group
405 Magma cast IMR IMR-4198 32.0 1,332
Remarks: 2.00 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 48.0 1,875
Remarks: 1.80 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 50.0 1,960
Remarks: 1.45 group
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 38.7 1,928
Remarks: start chg
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 43.0 2,096
Remarks: max chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.0 1,716
Remarks: start chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 40.0 1,865
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.2 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 48.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 52.2 2,198
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 58.0 2,389
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 54.9 2,217
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 61.0 2,410
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 58.1 2,226
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 64.5 2,420
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 60.3 2,214
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 67.0 2,407
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 59.4 2,001
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 66.0 2,175
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 56.7 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 63.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 39.4 1,813
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.8 1,971
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 46.1 1,919
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 51.2 2,086
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 50.0 2,030
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 55.5 2,207
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 55.8 2,067
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 62.0 2,247
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 55.8 2,010
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 62.0 2,185
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 54.9 1,892
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 61.0 2,057
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 55.8 1,982
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 62.0 2,154
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 55.8 1,719
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 62.0 1,869
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.9 1,688
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 41.0 1,835
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 41.4 1,732
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 46.0 1,883
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 47.3 1,883
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 52.5 2,047
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 49.9 1,877
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 55.4 2,040
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 54.0 1,909
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 60.0 2,075
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 49.5 1,689
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 55.0 1,836
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 53.1 1,875
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 59.0 2,038
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 53.1 1,620
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 59.0 1,761
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-3031 52.5 1,870
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-4198 44.2 2,000
Remarks: 39,000 psi
300 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-3031 57.0 2,100
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-3031 56.0 2,030
Remarks: 38,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-4198 45.0 2,050
Remarks: 40,000 psi
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-3031 50.8 1,860
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge
400 Remington soft point IMR IMR-3031 50.0 1,840
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge (VERY ACCURATE)
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-4198 40.0 1,820
Remarks: 40,000 psi
if you want a good 450 marlin load try 50 grains of IMR 3031 under a 405 remington bullet and a 215 fed primer,
its accurate and will kill anything in north America if you place your shots well,
if you want to beat your self half sill buy a 458 lott and load 500 grain bullets to 2300fps with about 75-80 grains of imr 4320 or IMR 4895 (LOOK IT UP IN YOUR MANUAL) but all youll gain is a bruised shoulder the 405 grain load in the marlin cleanly kills bear and ELK etc.
this is the load I consider about ideal, I sight it in 3.5" high at 100 yards
you simply sight in at 100 yards off the bench on the yellow dot and have all the shots print over the smaller red dot,when you get out in the field, hold where the light green dot is it will produce a fatal wound out a bit past 300 yards, you sure don,t have to use this method or even agree but I can assure you its resulted in a bunch of dead elk
in on a browning caliber 450 marlin BLR ,
and was very much pleased with the resulting upgrade,
in function, accuracy and over all performance.
the best load I found so far is not near the max level, its a 405 grain remington, bullet over a 215 fed primer and 50 grains of IMR3031
1.5" 3 shot groups are very common, with that load.
my rifle looks very similar to this picture I found posted
Lets call this a product test and recommendation,
the more I shoot my 450 marlin caliber BLR, the more I see it as almost the best possible compromise in power rapid fire and accuracy,and very effective power application, I've seen , this cartridge produces impressive power levels out to at least 250 yards with proper hand loads ,while not being abusive too the point you have to really think about it's recoil , before snapping it up to your shoulder and firing, its certainly not abusive due to recoil levels, but youll certainly know when the rifle fired.
its much easier to use than my 458 win and 458 lott bolt guns, in fact its just at that level where your sure the rifle fired but your not in the least worried about getting hit with a scope due to recoil, its a bit like a 338 win in that respect, darn effective without any significant abuse on the shoulder.
Ive been using a 405 rem over 50 grains of imr 3031 and a federal 215 primer , a 4x Leopold post & cross hair scope , the guns amazingly accurate easily under 1" 3 shot groups off the bench rest but Im more impressed with being able to knock empty coke cans off a fence at 80 yards almost as fast as I can site and squeeze off shots , and nothing Ive ever used before drops hogs like those big soft point 458 caliber slugs
(my 300 win mag comes close)but its not as easy to snap shoot
I can,t think of a single large game animal, like deer elk or black bear, hogs etc. Id ever hunt at under 200 yards that this would not work well on.
you can play with ballistic computers and trajectory charts for weeks if you care too but the math and facts won,t change,if you want to carry a useful rifle that you can expect to use in the feild with a reasonable trajectory, you can graph out the difference between all the potential bullet weights and velocity's, if you care to, (as an engineer I did that lots of times)it won,t change the fact that both the 45/70 and 450 marlin have very similar case capacity and if you graph out all the 300grn -500 grn projectiles loaded to max safe pressures, the 450 marlin holds a minor advantage with its slightly higher safe working pressure and that your most efficient loads based on trajectory, and retained energy and limited case capacity always favor the 350-430 grain projectiles.
look at the loads listed earlier, use a ballistic calculator
youll eventually be forced into that realization , by simple math
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady...c-calculators/
the additional 150-175 or so fps that the 450 marlin allows, over a 45/70 is not all that significant once you realize that the minor increase in impact energy and flatter trajectory will be a very minor advantage and either cartridge punches through an elk and whats behind it easily.
DECENT CAST BULLET SOURCE
http://westernbullet.com/45riflecaliber.html
http://www.browning.com/products/catalo ... d=006&bg=x
http://www.all4shooters.com/en/articles ... mmunition/
Re: 450 marlin handloads.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) 250 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 57.0 2,288
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 60.0 1,970
Remarks: 1.95 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 62.0 2,091
Remarks: 1.80 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 51.5 1,751
Remarks: 2.25 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 53.0 1,869
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 54.0 1,990
Remarks: 1.90 group
300 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 50.0 1,982
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon H-4198 48.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.60 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 59.0 1,770
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 61.0 1,821
Remarks: 1.70 group
350 Kodiak FP IMR IMR-3031 56.0 1,827
Remarks: 1.55 group
350 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-335 60.0 1,872
Remarks: 1.20 group
400 Speer FN Hodgdon H-4895 56.0 1,773
Remarks: 1.75 group
405 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-322 52.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.50 group
405 Magma cast IMR IMR-4198 32.0 1,332
Remarks: 2.00 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 48.0 1,875
Remarks: 1.80 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 50.0 1,960
Remarks: 1.45 group
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 38.7 1,928
Remarks: start chg
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 43.0 2,096
Remarks: max chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.0 1,716
Remarks: start chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 40.0 1,865
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.2 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 48.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 52.2 2,198
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 58.0 2,389
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 54.9 2,217
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 61.0 2,410
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 58.1 2,226
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 64.5 2,420
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 60.3 2,214
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 67.0 2,407
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 59.4 2,001
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 66.0 2,175
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 56.7 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 63.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 39.4 1,813
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.8 1,971
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 46.1 1,919
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 51.2 2,086
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 50.0 2,030
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 55.5 2,207
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 55.8 2,067
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 62.0 2,247
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 55.8 2,010
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 62.0 2,185
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 54.9 1,892
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 61.0 2,057
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 55.8 1,982
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 62.0 2,154
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 55.8 1,719
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 62.0 1,869
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.9 1,688
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 41.0 1,835
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 41.4 1,732
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 46.0 1,883
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 47.3 1,883
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 52.5 2,047
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 49.9 1,877
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 55.4 2,040
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 54.0 1,909
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 60.0 2,075
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 49.5 1,689
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 55.0 1,836
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 53.1 1,875
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 59.0 2,038
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 53.1 1,620
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 59.0 1,761
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-3031 52.5 1,870
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-4198 44.2 2,000
Remarks: 39,000 psi
300 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-3031 57.0 2,100
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-3031 56.0 2,030
Remarks: 38,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-4198 45.0 2,050
Remarks: 40,000 psi
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-3031 50.8 1,860
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge
400 Remington soft point IMR IMR-3031 50.0 1,840
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge (VERY ACCURATE)
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-4198 40.0 1,820
Remarks: 40,000 psi
if you want a good 450 marlin load try 50 grains of IMR 3031 under a 405 remington bullet and a 215 fed primer,
its accurate and will kill anything in north America if you place your shots well,
if you want to beat your self half sill buy a 458 lott and load 500 grain bullets to 2300fps with about 75-80 grains of imr 4320 or IMR 4895 (LOOK IT UP IN YOUR MANUAL) but all youll gain is a bruised shoulder the 405 grain load in the marlin cleanly kills bear and ELK etc.
this is the load I consider about ideal, I sight it in 3.5" high at 100 yards
you simply sight in at 100 yards off the bench on the yellow dot and have all the shots print over the smaller red dot,when you get out in the field, hold where the light green dot is it will produce a fatal wound out a bit past 300 yards, you sure don,t have to use this method or even agree but I can assure you its resulted in a bunch of dead elk
Last edited by hardcastonly; 11-10-2018 at 03:16 PM.
11-10-2018, 03:36 PM
#16
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: On an Island in Vermont
Posts: 22,605
Congrats OT and that is a really nice cow elk. It will be perfect for what will be the secondary memory.... the good eats. I am glad it all worked out even though conditions were not as good as hoped. Wait until you start eating her. Great flavor.